Rotella CJ-4 might not be holding up...

[deeter16317]

Just to bring this up...here are some pictures, they speak for themselves. These were taken on flat ground with the cruise control set, calm conditions with an empty truck. Imagine bucking a decent headwind at almost red line...

I'm going to send a sample to Blackstone this week...I was in Jacksonville all last week. I also will be taking possession of 6 gallons of Series 9000 tomorrow or Wednesday, hopefully have enough time to change before I head for Washington state next week.

 

[deeter16317]

I just took delivery of 6 gallons of Schaeffers S9000 CJ-4 5w40 and 12 quarts of S7000 SM 5w30 for the cars...

I also just took a sample of the current fill after driving the truck around some...should be representative.

I'll report back when I get results...and no, I'm not contacting Shell since I'm changing brands anyway.

 

[deeter16317]

As an update, I got my used oil analysis results back...

Although the results seemed to have a point or two higher wear metals across the board (as well as higher anti-wear constituents, as in higher than the rest of my used oil analysis with less miles), the oil was at 80.1 SUS@210 and 15.56 cSt@100, which is elevated and very similar to the previous "degraded" oil. The insoluables were at 0.4% and flashpoint was down to 425*.

I do suspect the analysis is a little strange (maybe the column was contaminated?), although not badly. Blackstone did not indicate any issues, but you can definitely see the similarities between the other run.

On a side note, the S9000 is holding up quite well. It currently has 3k miles on this fill, and is still clear...even with a pretty hard run through Nebraska.

 

[D-Roc]

Wow, Steve you only put the 9000 in a short time ago...you rack up the miles.

 

[deeter16317]

I traveled to WA over last weekend...

I'll be putting another 2600 miles on it next weekend, for the trip home.

It doesn't take long...figure I have owned this truck four years, and it currently has 165k on the clock. That's a touch over 40k a year, and its picking up in a big way right now...

 

[onion]

Why do you have the pyrometer plumbed in before the turbo? I'd like to see a picture of that.

'Cause I've seen and installed a lot of pyrometers... and the probe always goes in a few inches downstream of the turbo. Not sure what the purpose of mounting one before the turbo would be.

 

[deeter16317]

Ummm, because its what 99% of the small diesel world owners do...it is more representative of real world temps...and most aftermarket guages are set for pre-turbo.

The only reason to go post-turbo is to protect the turbo from the chance of eating the probe if it fails.

I'm not going to argue my install, it is what it is. And it is correct.

 

[HarleyGuy]

That's where mine is located.

As per the instructions for my Edge Juice w/Attitude:

The EGT probe must be mounted in the exhaust manifold
before the turbo inlet to operate properly.

 

[LateArrivalforLSU]

Originally Posted By: deeter16317
it is more representative of real world temps...

Yep, that's the only place to mount a pyrometer to accurately gauge temps.

 

[onion]

Well, if it's workin' for you... then the more power to ya'.

I know that on heavy trucks, tractors, construction equipment... and pretty much everything else besides peni$-compensation pickups, it's mounted after the turbo. I thought those EGT's sounded awful high. But I reckon temps would be higher before the turbo.

 

[deeter16317]

Sorry I own a diesel-powered pickup...guess we can't all be as great as you...nice cheap shot.

 

[LateArrivalforLSU]

Originally Posted By: onion
Well, if it's workin' for you... then the more power to ya'.

I know that on heavy trucks, tractors, construction equipment... and pretty much everything else besides peni$-compensation pickups, it's mounted after the turbo. I thought those EGT's sounded awful high. But I reckon temps would be higher before the turbo.

You're right, why would any of us buy a diesel powered pick up to tow our 10K plus loads. Give me a break.

Your comment is out of line.

 

[dnewton3]

Either method for installing a pyrometer is acceptable. The important thing is to understand where it installed, so the frame of reference for the temps can be put into perspective.

Pre-turbo is by far the most common on light duty trucks, so that EGT's are known pre-turbo. This speaks to how hot the pistons and turbo are getting. The downside is that there is some small chance of the pyrometer breaking, and damaging the turbo. It's very often used when performance modifications are present, to assure defueling if temps get out of hand. However, it is also not uncommon on stock trucks that do a lot of pulling, such as travel-trailers/5vers.

Post-turbo is more common in large equipment. This is because the downtime due to failure of the pyrometer is seen to be very expensive to big equipment/operation. Further, because there are typically no "performance" modifications done to this type of equipment, there is little expectation of temps elevated past the designed safe point. The down side is that this type system does not give immediate temp rise info, nor does it accurately speak to the upstream temps well, due to many area's of heat loss.

Neither is right/wrong; they'er just different and to understand your rig, you must understand how it's gaged.

 

[wjdell]

Seems to me you have been cooking oil just like a VW would on any group II oil. Your first UOA on S9000 was deceptive as it would take some time to clean out all the residue from the 15W40 CJ4. I have heard this AutoRX is real good for cleaning a engine in this condition. You should not judge any oil for the first two OCi's. But by the third OCI you should see the actual performance. I have only one UOA for a a VW PD engine after switching from Pentosin TS w/Lubro Moly and the first UOA was a improvement. I hope you update this thread and let us know what the outcome is.

 

[tr4petty]

Onion, peni$-compensating pickups? You're an idiot. What do you suggest I pull my 5ver with? And even if I didn't have a 5ver, who are you to suggest what type of vehicle I drive; large or small; gas, diesel, or hybrid; car, SUV, or pickup?
I hope you ride a bicycle everywhere because if you don't, some extreme bicyclists might call your Prius a peni$-compensating vehicle! It's all perspective.

 

[BuickGN]

I have nothing useful to contribute other than why isn't the probe in the center of the manifold, right before the turbo so it averages all cylinders instead of two cylinders? Not arguing, just wondering. I had no idea diesels ran these kind of EGTs, the only time I've seen EGTs was on a non turbo and it hit 800 at wide open throttle. I've got my sensor post turbo and see 1650 for a few seconds at a time but that's a gasser and not really applicable here.

 

[deeter16317]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
I have nothing useful to contribute other than why isn't the probe in the center of the manifold, right before the turbo so it averages all cylinders instead of two cylinders? Not arguing, just wondering. I had no idea diesels ran these kind of EGTs, the only time I've seen EGTs was on a non turbo and it hit 800 at wide open throttle. I've got my sensor post turbo and see 1650 for a few seconds at a time but that's a gasser and not really applicable here.



You can't place it in the center of the manifold because the manifold is actually two separate chambers...thre front cylinders run into one half, the rear three run into the other half...the outlet of the manifold is actually split in half...so unless you had two probes and two guages. IIRC, the front two cylinders are supposed to be the hottest??

The reason the later Cummins run hotter EGTs is two fold...one, they are higher HP and two, they have a third injection that happens after the exhaust valve opens (it helps emissions burn in the exhaust, a type of EGR). Even the first gen 12-valve run around 1000*F.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: deeter16317
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
I have nothing useful to contribute other than why isn't the probe in the center of the manifold, right before the turbo so it averages all cylinders instead of two cylinders? Not arguing, just wondering. I had no idea diesels ran these kind of EGTs, the only time I've seen EGTs was on a non turbo and it hit 800 at wide open throttle. I've got my sensor post turbo and see 1650 for a few seconds at a time but that's a gasser and not really applicable here.




You can't place it in the center of the manifold because the manifold is actually two separate chambers...thre front cylinders run into one half, the rear three run into the other half...the outlet of the manifold is actually split in half...so unless you had two probes and two guages. IIRC, the front two cylinders are supposed to be the hottest??

The reason the later Cummins run hotter EGTs is two fold...one, they are higher HP and two, they have a third injection that happens after the exhaust valve opens (it helps emissions burn in the exhaust, a type of EGR). Even the first gen 12-valve run around 1000*F.


Very interesting, thank you. I don't want to take this thread off topic so I won't ask any more questions about this, but wouldn't the third injection make using EGTs for tuning nearly meaningless or is the tuning the same, just on a higher scale?

 

[deeter16317]

The EGTs are merely measured to ensure you don't melt the turbo...they are typically not for tuning in a diesel.

 

[whitesands]

If you look at the VOA section blackstone appears to have been showing some inconsistant lab results...I wonder if that could've played a part...