Rod/Main/Cam Bearings - Any Quality Differences?

[qdeezie]

So, that time has now arrived.....since I had to pull the heads off the truck engine due to the broken intake manifold bolt that I couldn't get out, I figured I might as well pull the block so I can finally deep clean it and re-ring it.

This way, this allows the machine shop and myself to thoroughly clean the block, pistons, crank, etc. so I don't have to worry about sludge remnants or oil pressure again.

I've never much cared about name brands in the past when it came to rings, bearings, etc. because whatever brand the parts store had worked well for me. Only thing I've ever been particular about was having moly rings over cast rings.

Now, I'm just sorta thinking out loud here, but does anyone have a brand preference of bearings or a positive experience with a certain manufacturer of bearings over another?

In my mind as long as the clearance is good and the oil is changed timely as it will be, it shouldn't be too much of a difference in bearings.

What I'm doing, what I hope to achieve and my personal thoughts about this rebuild are:

#1 - Make the internals absolutely spotless. If you've ever owned an engine and the previous owners didn't know or care about an oil change, you feel my pain here.

#2 - Install new rings, bearings, freeze plugs, oil pump, oil pump pickup, timing chain and roller cam. My 1990 engine was a roller block (threaded bolt holes for spider bracket and deep lifter bores) with flat tappet lifters , so I finally get to upgrade. I have a 92 Bronco roller block that will now be a very, very distant future upgrade project, so I'll be using the stock cam, spider and lifter holders out of that. I just need to find someone to swap my distributor gear now.

#3 - I have to admit, I am being budget minded, but practical about my spending on the rebuild. The engine ran very smooth, so I think I have some leeway here as far as reusing parts.

#4 - If the engine is clean and bearing tolerances are like new, I should never have to worry about oil pressure issues again.

At any rate, what do you think about bearing manufacturers? A bearing is a bearing or Brand X has substantially been greater than Brand Z for you for whatever reason?

 

[Cujet]

There are some very interesting differences among bearings. Clevite 77's were the old standard for many years. They are a multi metal bearing that are quite tolerant of common engine faults, failures and problems. These include dry start up, particulates, slight mis alignment, and siezure resistance.

Today, there are many variations of the common tri metal bearing, and other styles including pure aluminum. But the bottom line is that bearings made in a similar way to the C77's are probably a best choice.

Today, people use thinner oils. Bearings must have excellent siezure resistance, due to lower film strength and the resulting more frequent metal to metal contact.

 

[qdeezie]

I see that there are Bi-Metal and Tri-Metal bearings and it's a company called King Bearings that is really talking up something that sounds good to my ears regarding bearing quality.

This company here is the reason why I'm asking: King Bearings

And regarding thinner oils, I must be 100% honest, I will be doing a test run of Quaker State Ultimate Durability 0W-20 in this engine probably about 3,000 to 6,000 miles in to see how it performs.

 

[Brons2]

Why? The 5.0/302 is not back-spec'd for 5w20.

As for bearings, I'd use Clevite 77, myself. Or go with your machine shop's recommendation. They will let you know if you can go with a stock replacement bearing or if you need to grind the crank .10 or .20 under.

 

[punisher]

Ditto. Lots of marketing hype for a simple (in this case) choice. Street driven, iron block, gas powered, Clevite 77s will work fine, as will any number of different bearings.

Only time you need to concern yourself with bearing choices are if you run alky or nitro, or are going to run a lot of dirt through an engine.

 

[qdeezie]

Originally Posted By: Brons2
Why? The 5.0/302 is not back-spec'd for 5w20.

As for bearings, I'd use Clevite 77, myself. Or go with your machine shop's recommendation. They will let you know if you can go with a stock replacement bearing or if you need to grind the crank .10 or .20 under.


I was always under the impression that it was back spec'd for 5w-20. That's what was leading me to wanting experiment with 0w-20. I'm a 5w30/5w-40 guy, but I figured 20 may be worth trying. Here's a bit of text that put me under the impression that it was back spec'd: Ford 5w-20 TSB

Regarding bearings, yea I'm waiting until I get the crank to the machine shop before purchasing bearings.

The more I think about it, the bearings I always used in the past were Sealed Power or Clevite 77.

 

[qdeezie]

Originally Posted By: punisher
Ditto. Lots of marketing hype for a simple (in this case) choice. Street driven, iron block, gas powered, Clevite 77s will work fine, as will any number of different bearings.

Only time you need to concern yourself with bearing choices are if you run alky or nitro, or are going to run a lot of dirt through an engine.


You have a very good point. I think I'm going to go with the same formula of "whatever's available, I'll use".

 

[Cujet]

Just an FYI, a number of racers are seeing increased HP with the super thin oils. However, there also seems to be an increase in spun bearings.

I'd guess, but don't know for sure, that an oil pump, designed to provide sufficient pressure with a 0W-20 oil would be required for long term success. Otherwise, you might notice what others notice, a drop in hot oil pressure to uncomfortable levels.

One thing we know, super thin oils result in more frequent journal to bearing contact in racing and many performance applications. This is a key reason to pick a bearing tolerant of this. C77's are a known good choice.

 

[Cujet]

http://www.substech.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=engine_bearing_failure

http://www.substech.com/dokuwiki/doku.ph...5#oil_clearance

 

[OVERKILL]

This is for a 302? A few suggestions:

1. Get a Mustang HO camshaft, you should be able to get one for next to nothing.
2. Get a Mustang distributor from any Fox V8 car in the wreckers, this includes the T-Bird and Mark VII. That will solve that problem.
3. Use the Clevite 77's, that should have been what was in it stock.


Your engine is bank-fire, not SEFI, so the injector firing order isn't important. However, with the HO camshaft, you WILL have to change your plug firing order to 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8. IIRC, the truck ECM can't just be swapped with an SD HO ECM, but I might be wrong. It's been a while since I did a similar swap. I ended up using a Lincoln harness and a Mark VII ECM.

 

[SteveSRT8]

When tearing down a decent runner for a rebuild we spend a ton of time measuring after everything is cleaned. I was trained by a RCAF helo mechanic, and he always comes over to help with his comprehensive collection of micrometers and such.

Once you measure and determine the clearances, wear, etc., THEN you know what parts to buy. Many times it's very different in there than you think.

 

[qdeezie]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
This is for a 302? A few suggestions:

1. Get a Mustang HO camshaft, you should be able to get one for next to nothing.
2. Get a Mustang distributor from any Fox V8 car in the wreckers, this includes the T-Bird and Mark VII. That will solve that problem.
3. Use the Clevite 77's, that should have been what was in it stock.


Your engine is bank-fire, not SEFI, so the injector firing order isn't important. However, with the HO camshaft, you WILL have to change your plug firing order to 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8. IIRC, the truck ECM can't just be swapped with an SD HO ECM, but I might be wrong. It's been a while since I did a similar swap. I ended up using a Lincoln harness and a Mark VII ECM.


Yep, it's for a 302.

I have an Explorer cam which has way better specs than the Bronco cam, but my only hangup (and yes, I know this sounds very silly) is changing the firing order. From all I've gathered, it will run just fine with the HO firing order, but it's just a hangup that I can't seem to move beyond. I saw that Crane has a roller cam (See Here) that fits the bill perfectly as far as my desired usage goes from a truck perspective and it has the 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 firing order. My only reservation is the cost ($400 compared to $200 to $300) compared to other aftermarket cams that use the HO firing order. If it was in the normal roller cam price range, I'd bite the bullet and spring for that one. I wonder would a custom ground roller be cheaper than this Crane cam.

Any experiences with custom ground cams?

I purchased a new Richporter distributor back in the summer and the thought of parting ways with it to use one from the wreckers doesn't sound too appealing. I'm thinking of selling it and buying another Richporter distributor with the roller gear on it. If I could get at least half of what I spent on it, I can accept that. It wasn't exactly expensive ($65ish), so this may be the route I go.

 

[qdeezie]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
When tearing down a decent runner for a rebuild we spend a ton of time measuring after everything is cleaned. I was trained by a RCAF helo mechanic, and he always comes over to help with his comprehensive collection of micrometers and such.

Once you measure and determine the clearances, wear, etc., THEN you know what parts to buy. Many times it's very different in there than you think.


I agree. I'm trying to be budget conscious, but I have a worst case scenario plan as well. I do know for sure that the crank will have to be reground.

 

[OVERKILL]

I have a custom grind from Jay Allen. For your application, considering how stock the rest of the engine is, assuming stock heads and intake, the HO or Explorer cam are both better choices and the custom is a big waste of money.

BTW, the HO firing order is superior and makes more power. It also more evenly loads the crank.

I'm a big fan of the OEM Ford distributors with an updated TFI on them, but that's just me.

 

[qdeezie]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I have a custom grind from Jay Allen. For your application, considering how stock the rest of the engine is, assuming stock heads and intake, the HO or Explorer cam are both better choices and the custom is a big waste of money.

BTW, the HO firing order is superior and makes more power. It also more evenly loads the crank.

I'm a big fan of the OEM Ford distributors with an updated TFI on them, but that's just me.


I'm going to ponder on using that Explorer cam. What you're saying makes sense.

Regarding the custom cam, that was more so worst case scenario and I pull the block and end up having to replace a ton of stuff that I can later optimize in the future with a set of aluminum heads.

 

[OVERKILL]

If you are going that route, your best bet is the TFS top-end kit. It is 50-state legal and will make a reliable 325+HP from what I recall.

Definitely use the Explorer cam. Where are you getting the lifters/hold down from?

 

[qdeezie]

I bought a 92 Bronco engine awhile back as a long term project for my truck and it had the roller cam in it, so I'm using the accessories from it.

As far as where I'm getting the lifters from, I haven't decided, but I was thinking of picking up some Sealed Power rollers from the parts store.

 

[OVERKILL]

If the Bronco has the roller lifters, just re-use those. Mine have well over 300,000Km on them, LOL, they are on their 3rd cam

 

[qdeezie]

I messed around and threw them away when I took the block down after purchasing it back in the summer. I could kick myself in the rear. I saw someone reselling used lifters on eBay that I may take a look at.

 

[OVERKILL]

Any lifters from a roller 302 should be fine, just make sure they are in good shape, though I assume that generally goes without saying