I posted about my saga with the crap Goodyears i purchssed but have a question for any of you who understand road force balancing machines. Can a tire be road force balanced on the machine and even show as in spec while on the machine, but then take it off and the tire act completely different when actually on the car in such a way that they would feel as if they were not completely balanced?
Road Force Balancing
- Thread starter Wardonkey
- Start date
@CapriRacer to the white courtesy phone please.
Couple things
There really isn’t a “spec” I’ve seen the upper end of the passenger car range set between 12 and 18. From my conversations there is not widespread agreement on what’s unacceptable, probably due to the fact that as Barry already mentioned cars can be more or less sensitive to it.
IME in absence of damage, the tire moving on the wheel or introduction of a foreign substance - the answer is NO
Couple things
There really isn’t a “spec” I’ve seen the upper end of the passenger car range set between 12 and 18. From my conversations there is not widespread agreement on what’s unacceptable, probably due to the fact that as Barry already mentioned cars can be more or less sensitive to it.
IME in absence of damage, the tire moving on the wheel or introduction of a foreign substance - the answer is NO
The big problem in my opinion is that few tire shops either train or give an employee time to properly mount and balance tires that use Hunter Road Force balance machines.
Could...accept that it didn't do this until the day I put the Goodyears on. And I doubt the tires broke a mechanical part.
Hello, hello? Does this thing even work?
So here we are again. Yes, there are things that can happen that will cause a vibration even though the assembly is "IN SPEC".
The most obvious one is off center mounting. Even though every OEM for the last 30 years used center piloted wheels, there are still situations where all the imbalance and out-of-round add up.
Then there is the issue of other rotating components. Brake rotors and drums sometimes have balance weights and those weights can fall off - sometimes at inopportune moments.
And here is the most interesting one of all - the Phantom Vibration. Sometimes people who have felt a vibration in the past will feel the vibration even when it's not there. That's because there is ALWAYS some vibration and the human mind will zero in on that frequency. I learned this on a trip where we took our vibration analyzer and showed it to a person who was sure we didn't fix a vibration - the vibration couldn't be sorted out from the road surface input.
Have you eliminated the possibility of cold tire flat spotting?
And while on this subject, it's not a great idea to have a tire road force balanced if it sat in a cold parking lot overnight then brought in to work on it. Tires should be warm when being RF balanced. If brought in warm, all four tires should be lifted off the ground so they can't take a set in the cold.
And while on this subject, it's not a great idea to have a tire road force balanced if it sat in a cold parking lot overnight then brought in to work on it. Tires should be warm when being RF balanced. If brought in warm, all four tires should be lifted off the ground so they can't take a set in the cold.
This thread is gonna end up going down the same road as the other one.
Based on what was realated in the other one I have my doubts about the performance of the road force you got.
Assuming it’s a Hunter machine, properly used there should be no question what is wrong.
Based on what was realated in the other one I have my doubts about the performance of the road force you got.
Assuming it’s a Hunter machine, properly used there should be no question what is wrong.
and I would add giving them time to do the balance right.....Its more like hurry up get you out get the next in...
Absolutely this! I’ve closely watched Road Force Balancing four or more times. Only Once was an attempt made to reduce the numbers on ANY tire. On my CRV, the teen tech didn’t even know the term “road Force”. I asked him what my road force numbers were, he said, “I don’t know what you are talking about”.
Now when I got new tires on my BMW M Coupe the tech measured the ”roundness“ of the wheel first. After mounting the tire and measuring again … the machine told him where to rotate the tire on the wheel to put high spot of the tire on the low spot of the wheel.
That said, he put the rear directional tires going the wrong direction.
I swapped them at home.
few shops will have that $$$$ equipment + as noted KNOW how to use it!! do you really need it prolly NOT in most cases + surely you will pay more $$$ need it or NOT!! very high ILLEGAL speeds would prolly benefit BUT driving legally it will likely matter NOT + as noted everything in your suspension needs to be considered + an out of true wheel spun on most balancers can be detected + even NEW wheels especially cheep CHINESE cast ones can be untrue as i found out personally BUT Jegs replaced the faulty chinese alloy rim!!
Yes, if the machine is out of calibration.
How to Avoid 28 Common Mounting and Balancing Mistakes
Success in a tire bay, as in any workplace, starts with mastering the basics. We’ve gathered tips from four tire equipment manufacturers to solve these everyday mistakes.
www.moderntiredealer.com
And this is the way it's supposed to be done. All other factors also need to be considered, like the flat spotting I referred to above.
In addition, it can be pricey to have it done correctly. Easily over $20.00 per wheel.
The balancing machines do need to be maintained and kept clean. There is a daily calibration procedure to run on them, and the newer high end machines will continuously calibrate themselves to some degree. There is an older regular Hunter balancer in our shop that we have relegated to mostly semi truck tire/wheel balancing. After doing a 200lb tire and rim combo on it, it needs to be recalibrated for regular car wheels. The person using the balancer is the biggest factor. The centering cone choice and placement can definitely affect balance. Balance is great on the machine but something is off when driving the vehicle. Some techs tend to 'chase weight' as we call it, where they keep adding more weight each time they check-spin it. They should stop and start over if it takes more weight after the first spin. Something is usually wrong such as the next size up or down centering cone might work better. If the tech has done their job balancing correctly and something still feels off, its time to look at suspension components.
