Road and Track - 12 best under $30,000
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JHZR2
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My problem is that the styling of the 350z seems boring after a while... last night we were at the home depot, and we parked next to a nice silver 350Z. It was very shiny, well waxed and kept. However, to me, almost every nissan looks the same... and similar to every infiniti.
Sure, similar things could be said about, say MBs and BMWs... but I dont get tired of looking at them...
Just my opinion... then again, Id agree with a Z being at the top of the list.
JMH
Sure, similar things could be said about, say MBs and BMWs... but I dont get tired of looking at them...
Just my opinion... then again, Id agree with a Z being at the top of the list.
JMH
Just like their comercials "every design starts with a single line"
I agree, the styling of the entire nissan/infinity line doesn't excite me. I like the infinity version of the 350Z better then the 350Z
Has Nissan done anything to improve the quality/durability of their cars of late? Most Nissans use to turn into junk after a few years or develop some kind of bothersome mechanical issue.
I'm getting prices on Mustang GTs at the moment, but I believe that a 350z will out-handle it on the curves.
The 'Stang is a straight-line car, IMHO.
If I can get a killer deal, I might delve into the Ford realm this holiday season...
As for Nissans in general, the V6 is a might motor, but it is very expensive to repair if something goes wrong.
I know, I had two Maximas.
The 'Stang is a straight-line car, IMHO.
If I can get a killer deal, I might delve into the Ford realm this holiday season...
As for Nissans in general, the V6 is a might motor, but it is very expensive to repair if something goes wrong.
I know, I had two Maximas.
The Mustang GT is a much better handling car than it used to be. Likely the best handling solid axle car ever built (Cobra and Tuner Stangs excepted).
The 350Z is still a better handling (Even with Base Suspension) and more refined car than the GT.
The 350Z is still a better handling (Even with Base Suspension) and more refined car than the GT.
The Nissan 240Z was a genuinely good sports car till it evolved into 300Z and took on considerable weight, the newer versions looked real nice but still had the weight problem, hope Nissan has gone back to its roots and made the 350Z into a nimble handling light weight sports car.
What about the new GTR coming I think in 2008. That car has me very interested. Don't know what the price will be though.
I'm not a fan of pushrod engines and solid axels in a performace car. I also don't get how supersport motorcycles can be made to redline a 15K but there are not any sports cars that can exceed 10k rpm from the manufacturer? Why is it that only expensive italian exotics can have a 3.5 or 4.5 liter V8 that redlines at 8.5k when my 600cc sportbike that costs $9000 has 45K miles on it without any problems?
I'm not a fan of pushrod engines and solid axels in a performace car. I also don't get how supersport motorcycles can be made to redline a 15K but there are not any sports cars that can exceed 10k rpm from the manufacturer? Why is it that only expensive italian exotics can have a 3.5 or 4.5 liter V8 that redlines at 8.5k when my 600cc sportbike that costs $9000 has 45K miles on it without any problems?
Sport Bike = 600cc 4-cylinder @ 600 lb (including rider)
Sports Car with same redline, power curve, performance = 3.6L V-24 @ 3600 lb (including 200 lb driver).
If you could get it as light as a Mosler MT900S you could to it to a 2.4L V-16.
I suspect anyone who doesnt respect pushrod engines has not driven 7.0L Z06.
Gene
PS A Mustang GT doesnt have a Pushrod Engine. Its SOHC 3V per cylinder.
Will do. I'd love the Shelby, but I fear that small numbers will make it insanely expensive, whereas the GT with some work could cost a *ell of a lot less and still be a lot of fun.
Scott
I feel shortchanged... S2000's not even in the running?
TimRJ - look up the Ariel Atom (http://www.arielatom.com/). Baddest #@$%! car I've ever seen. For 70k you too can go 140 in a go-kart.
TimRJ - look up the Ariel Atom (http://www.arielatom.com/). Baddest #@$%! car I've ever seen. For 70k you too can go 140 in a go-kart.
A 600 cc motorcycle engine with 4 cylinders has only 150 ccs per cylinder. A typical 350 CID V8 has 712 ccs per cylinder. Thus the motorcycle engine only has to move the piston up and down CUBE_ROOT( 712/150 ) = 60% as far per stroke (if it had the same bore stroke ratio. But since it does not those little pistons only move up and down 35mm per stroke (versus 89 mm for the big V8) so the little pistons can move up and down 2.5 times as fast with the same relative tension loads in the connection rods. So while the big V8 tops out around 6K RPMs the little motorcycle can top out at 6K*2.5 = 15K.
Now with the pistons operating in the right area (speed and strength wise) all it takes is a vlave train and intake and exhaust systems to also operatin in these stratospheric areas. 4 Tiny valves can move up and down much faster than 2 great big valves. Making them out of Titanium saves 50% of the density, so the only thing to manage is the springs needed for these valves to follow the cam.
The small European V8s that rev to 8.5K have shorter strokes so the piston speed is (basically) equivalvent to the big V8s and the motorcycles. The Ferrari engine that I am familiar with, use Titanium con rods to save weight, the crankshaft is turned on a lathe from forged billet, and (or 5) tiny valves. The intake and exhaust systems on these cars have more room in the engine bay to enable the intake systems and exhaust systems to be designed for performance rather than occupied-volume.
Together, the short strokes, exotic parts selectioni, and perfectly tuned intake and exhaust systems is what enables these engines to spin at these rapid rates, and produce large amounts of power per unit displacement.
You might be surprised, that the actual power-output per unit engine-bay-volume is actually better with the Vette LS2 engine than with the Ferrari 360 engine. Since the big V8 with push rods operating at a leisurely 1.5K RPMs driving down the road at 65 MPH is still in the fat part of the TQ curve, the big V8 can get better gas milage than the smaller higher strung V8 of the Ferrari (even after one puts in the overly-tall 6th gear like the Vette has). Pushrods enable an engine with big power to occupy a small volume and still deliver great power to the user (in both TQ and HP terms), and simultaneously deliver great gas milage.
Quote:
I feel shortchanged... S2000's not even in the running?
TimRJ - look up the Ariel Atom (http://www.arielatom.com/). Baddest #@$%! car I've ever seen. For 70k you too can go 140 in a go-kart.
Not when you're 6'-4", 240.
Don't fit.
The best deal in a 350z is the "Enthusiast". Got to have the LSD. If you shop around I have seen them for $4,000.00 off MSRP.
The Mustang GT has been difficult to get much off MSRP because its been so popular. The Base car has everthing I would want with two exceptions. Make sure the car you buy has the Performance Rear Axle Ratio. I would also want the rear spoiler delete.
I'd wait a year and buy a used 2007 Infinity G35 Sport 6MT: 306hp/268lbs, top speed 158mph(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), 18/25 mpg epa est., 0-60mph in 5.2(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) as per the 10/2006 Car & Driver Road Test...
Ought to be well under the $30K figure by then, still under warranty, and you'll show the taillights to the majority of the "sports cars" out there.
Cheers!
Ought to be well under the $30K figure by then, still under warranty, and you'll show the taillights to the majority of the "sports cars" out there.
Cheers!
Yes I unserstand your points about short stroke/long stoke and piston speeds. But what I don't get is that if you know that you are going to build a "performace car" why not model its design off of or similar to that whick is raced on the track. I'm not saying we need road cars with formula 1 engines. But a 4L DOHC 10Krpm V8 is not unreasonable. In the motorcycle world you can go to the dealer an buy a bike that is 80-90% of the capability of a fully competitive race bike. It is essentually a race bike with mirrors, turn signals and license.
In the auto world you get supposedly "sporty" or "sports cars" but they are quite litterally nothing remotly like what is being run around the race track with mabe the exception of the Vette, BMW M cars, Porsche, and Ferrari in SCCA. What I would like to see is more affordable true performace cars instead of $30,000 two door sedans.
I appreciate what GM has done with the LS2. It is nothing short of remarkable esspecially considering the history of the design. Also it is not to imply that the Vette is not a true sports car. But I cannot help asking what could have been had they built a 7L short stroke 48valve 9Krpm monster that made 800HP. Or in that same spirit have built a 5L DOHC engine that made similar power to the current LS2 with a good chance it would have still fit in the engine bay dispite large intake/ducting.
How about this for a future Ford Mustang:
2800LBs
4L 48V DOHC V8 8Krpm redline
Low GC
maybe Rear engine design (we have enough SUV's to hull the kids with)
Dry sump lubrication
6 Speed manual
FULLY INDEPENDENT suspention
All for less then $40,000
I suspect this might be heresy to some I guess.
In the auto world you get supposedly "sporty" or "sports cars" but they are quite litterally nothing remotly like what is being run around the race track with mabe the exception of the Vette, BMW M cars, Porsche, and Ferrari in SCCA. What I would like to see is more affordable true performace cars instead of $30,000 two door sedans.
I appreciate what GM has done with the LS2. It is nothing short of remarkable esspecially considering the history of the design. Also it is not to imply that the Vette is not a true sports car. But I cannot help asking what could have been had they built a 7L short stroke 48valve 9Krpm monster that made 800HP. Or in that same spirit have built a 5L DOHC engine that made similar power to the current LS2 with a good chance it would have still fit in the engine bay dispite large intake/ducting.
How about this for a future Ford Mustang:
2800LBs
4L 48V DOHC V8 8Krpm redline
Low GC
maybe Rear engine design (we have enough SUV's to hull the kids with)
Dry sump lubrication
6 Speed manual
FULLY INDEPENDENT suspention
All for less then $40,000
I suspect this might be heresy to some I guess.
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