RLI BioSYN 0w20, 5k OCI, '05 Civic

[RI_RS4]

Here's an example of the repeatability that I see with the Dyson contract lab.

I ran an experiment on one day to take a closer look at fuel dilution in the RS4 engine. So, I designed an experiment as follows:

After oil and oil filter change I ran on the highway, using only low throttle (LT)for acceleration, and cruising. I sampled the oil. Then I ran for 50 miles using about 3/4 throttle (HT)acceleration followed by 0 throttle deceleration on the highway for 50 miles, but not wide open throttle (WOT), and sampled the oil. Then I ran for about 50 miles with WOT acceleration followed by 0 throttle deceleration (that was lots of fun!), and sampled the oil. Finally, I let the car sit idling in my driveway for 40 minutes, and I sampled the oil.

All oil was sampled in exactly the same way, with fresh bottles and fresh extractor tubing, with the engine hot just after stopping, and were mailed of to Terry's contract lab.

...... Total . Oil
Test . Miles . Miles .. Fe . Cu . Pb . Ni . Al . Fuel ..... Vis

LT ... 8815 ... 143 .... 9 .. 5 .. 0 .. 1 .. 2 .. 0.75% .. 12.4
HT ... 8866 ... +51 .... 10.. 5 .. 0 .. 0 .. 2 .. 1.10% .. 12.6
WOT .. 8916 ... +50 .... 9 .. 5 .. 1 .. 1 .. 2 .. 1.65% .. 12.2
IDLE . 8916 ... 40min .. 11 . 5 .. 1 .. 1 .. 3 .. 1.65% .. 12.4

- Clearly fuel dilution is rising, as was expected.
- Viscosity is probably 12.4 +/- 0.2
- Fe is either 10 ppm +/-1, or it starts out somewhere between 9 and 10 and is rising slowly. Given that I absolutely hammered the engine, I'm not surprised to see wear elementals rise, although there may very well be a short time delay before it is measurable.
- Copper is dead nuts stable.
- Lead appears to be rising.
- Nickel appears to be around .5 to 1 ppm
- Aluminum is rising

After this, I made the following oil samples over a much longer term:

Total . Oil
Miles . Miles .. Fe . Cu . Pb . Ni . Al . Fuel ..... Vis

9510 ... 537 .... 6 .. 3 .. 0 .. 1 .. 1 .. 1.72% .. 11.9
10059... 1086.... 7 .. 4 .. 0 .. 1 .. 2 .. 1.65% .. 12.4
10606... 1633.... 11.. 6 .. 0 .. 1 .. 3 .. 1.70% .. 11.6
11896... 2923.... 18.. 9 .. 0 .. 0 .. 5 .. 2.00% .. 9.9

The second set of samples started off "cleaner" (i.e. - lower initial ppm levels) since the previous oil was changed after a total of only 300 miles. Given the confidence I gained in the previous fuel dilution test run, it is very easy to "see" trends in the subsequent data. It's quite easy to see how wear progresses and see the oil as it crashes.

This is why I have no problem with saying that that the change in wear for Fe and Cu is real, and significant.

Whether it is important, well that is a totally different matter. But IMO it is a real difference.

 

[BarkerMan]

I hope you will allow a question. I'm guessing that you draw a sample out, but in the design of your engine is the area the dip stick reaches kind of protected from the rest of the sump? If so do you think there would be any difference between your current sampling location and one closer to the main body of the sump? I’ve been catching up on past postings here and this BioSyn looks interesting. I’m just wondering if it has any additive fall out that would give a false reading. The next time you drive the additive fall out would be reabsorbed back into solution and the oil would chemically look a little different than the sample would indicate.

 

[RI_RS4]

Originally Posted By: BarkerMan
I hope you will allow a question. I'm guessing that you draw a sample out, but in the design of your engine is the area the dip stick reaches kind of protected from the rest of the sump? If so do you think there would be any difference between your current sampling location and one closer to the main body of the sump? I’ve been catching up on past postings here and this BioSyn looks interesting. I’m just wondering if it has any additive fall out that would give a false reading. The next time you drive the additive fall out would be reabsorbed back into solution and the oil would chemically look a little different than the sample would indicate.


Yes, the dipstick enters a baffled area of the sump. I've also sampled from the oil change stream, with no difference. Since I always sample after running the engine for at least 30 minutes on the highway, and take the sample while the engine is still hot, I doubt there are any additive fallout issues. We've also not seen any issues like this with BioSyn in testing. 36K miles and the engine is as clean as brand new.

 

[lindermant]

like RI_RS4, my sample was taken with the engine hot after a ~70 mile highway trip. I doubt there was much settling in the sump in the 10-15 minutes it took me to gather my sampling equipment.

Using chefwong's recent UOA as a case in point is a stretch, too many variables to my untrained eye [diff labs, diff OCI length, use of LC in one sample but not the others, last RLI sample had two fresh qts., no indication sample draws were taken hot or cold, no indication of sampling draw technique, no indication of what oil/air filters in use each sample, etc...]

I'll admit that I don't know what I don't know, but I did my best to make my test scenario as similar as possible, the variable being the oil.

 

[JohnBrowning]

RLI is too expensive and does not have national distrubution!!! Who want's to have to mail order their oil!!! If I can not buy it off the shelf it had better represent a heck of a value....I am sure their are some special case's were this oil is useful but I do not see it showing lineing the shelfs in my pole barn anytime soon! I would either stay with the Havoline or try on off the shelf synthetic!I wounder if Valvoline SYnthetic 5W20 would do better then RLI?

 

[BarkerMan]

Have you every taken a sample of cold used engine oil? In this one project we have found differing Boron levels, hot and cold. Cold is much higher, 20% or so. I wonder if other components will test different. There have been fuel dilution at 1.5% cold and 1.0% hot.