Results of Fram with Neutra

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Co worker has an 87 Pickup, (Dodge I beleive)4 cyl with 68,000 total miles. We changed the oil 1 1/2 years ago with Supertech synthetic and a Fram sure grip filter. (Only 4000 miles on oil and filter) Engine is absolutely filthy inside, varnish and black all over the place as seen from the filler neck. So, 500 miles ago we put in a bottle of Schaeffers Neutra. Changed the oil and filter last weekend. Engine from the filler neck perspective is unchanged, still filthy looking.

However, the drain pan used to catch the oil, I have never ever seen such debris come out of an engine. Pencil tip sized particles all over the place. I cut the Fram filter opened and expected to see it totally plugged up. Besides what appeared to be poor construction (media bent, very large gaps in between media pleats etc) but what I found was a ton of the same debris as in the drain pan but it was not in the media. it was all over the canister, the media itself was relatively free of debris.

This leads me to believe this filter never worked, it was always in bypass. The media should have been loaded with debris but it seems that the debris just kept circulating throughout the engine and some remained on the side of the canister.

Does this seem like a logical conclusion. Again, these are pencil tip sized particles floating around.

Now I am concerned that another change quickly is in order. Now has a Pure One filter but so much debris implies to me there is more in there being circulated, hopefully the Pure One is getting it.
 
So what are you saying, the Super-Tech Synthetic doesn't work that well?

I saw it clear up some of the varnish/sludge in my 302 at the oil filler neck.
 
WOW!! At the poor guy's expense I find this fascinating. I wonder what an oil analysis would tell us.

What kind of oil and OIC's WAS he doing before? I consider that low miles to have crud.

I'll bet it's exactly as you say, the filter was either damaged or defective or clogged into full time bypass

I would use a better filter, Pure 1 sounds fine, and just do a short 500-1000 mile interval with some OK oil. Then another treatment with the Nuetra, throw a SuperTech filter on, flush with Lubegard followed by a good solvent flush such as Amsoil for a 5 or 10 minute idle. Then just a 3K interval with a GOOD oil and GOOD filter.

That should get the "chunks" out.
 
It would be good to find the origin of those visible particles. Is the engine coming apart or just pieces from the filter? Planning an analysis?

David
 
Seem like your bud is is into maintaining the car as much as he's into driving it. 4k miles in a year and a half?
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The Fram filter is usually dust in a compost pile by that time. I think they even have an expiration date on the box like milk does!
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quote:

Engine is absolutely filthy inside, varnish and black all over the place as seen from the filler neck

Is that frm the SuperTech or was it there before?

10 to 1 says that the black stuff was in there before the addition of the Super-Tech synthetic oil. Dodge 4-cylinders usually aren't very clean when poorly maintained like that.
 
I don't think the oil had anything to do with the particles etc., it was the Neutra cleaning the engine up. We have done the changes on this for last 2-3 years and only do it once a year due to low mileage and at least I convinced him to use a synthetic although he goes for the least expensive he can find. Prior to the Fram it was a Pure One also. I never saw the particles previously in the changes so it was definitely the Neutra doing its thing. I am not sure any oil would clean the varnish off of this engine so a flush may be the only way. Of course, it really does run fine though so convincing someone to put a flush in the engine is tough when it is running fine. Uses a little oil maybe a quart in 4000 miles. Hopefully the Neutra helped with that.
 
Oh i see.

The way you phrased it in the start, it sounded like you were saying the Super-Tech Synthetic was pure garbage becuase it left all that varnish, etc...

I've worked on Mopar 4-bangers before... if you can get past the piston slap on the 2.5L's - then you'll find that it gunks up fairly quickly. They'll run fine for 200,000+ miles but if you don't take good care of 'em, it's a PITA to clean up.

BTW what 4-banger was it? With the Mopar 2.5L you can use the larger FL-1A oil filter (designed for Ford 5.0L V8s) which is like 2-3x the size of the stock oil filter.
 
I have two spare oil filters for my 2.5L - the oil filters have the same gasket size and thread, its just that they're like 4 times the size of the FL-1A!!!

Since I dont have the 2.5 anymore, I might as well use them as backups or when I decide to run AutoRX thru the 5.0
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4000 MILES IN 18 MONTHS! no wonder the oil looks like YUK. Probably sludge from condensation not a failure of the oil. We all know about Fram filters. I'd clean/change the PCV valve also!!
 
hehe my dads 86 300zx is about 1200 miles per year...basically thats just driving it so that the battery dont die...should i be changing the oil more often then?? the oil is still clean right now...only put about 500 miles on it in 2002...but i been pushing the car alot to red line...=0 maybe i should just drain out the oil and put new one in without changing the filter u think im logical?
 
With your dad's 300ZX you still might want to change the oil AND the filter once a year, unless you're willing to do an oil analysis which might tell you that you're safe to go two years.
 
i remember hte last time we changed it it was cruddy inside...eww...i never new oil looked like tar...his filter was fine, yet it was old...he neglected it...hehe it was so old that i can touch it and the paper would break...ok i guess ill go for that oil change, 1 year thing..what else should i change..pcv valve?
 
PCV valves are cheap so yes, do that too. With such low miles though, things like the fuel filter, air filter, spark plugs, etc, can probably go a few years between changes.
 
I would probably just run a quart or two of ATF in his engine... its cheaper than whatever engine detergents are available and just do it constantly. It has helped reduce the main seal leakage on my 302 V8.
 
I wonder what these engine cleaners do to the oil pump pick-up screen? It seems to me the screen will clog with debris, since the oil goes through the screen before it reaches the oil filter. Or maybe the cleaners dissolve any buildup on the screen?

The reason I ask is, I had a pick-up screen clog on a Ford 2.3L a couple years ago. The pan had to be removed and the screen replaced. However, the clog was caused from the deterioation of the pan sealer that Ford used, and not from poor maintenance. After that happened, clogged screens are a worry of mine.....
 
quote:

Originally posted by TheLoneRanger:
I wonder what these engine cleaners do to the oil pump pick-up screen? It seems to me the screen will clog with debris, since the oil goes through the screen before it reaches the oil filter. Or maybe the cleaners dissolve any buildup on the screen?

Great question. I don't know how fine the screens are but the particles were the size of pin heads which are very easy to see with the naked eye. So why didn't they get caught in the screen. They would never have made it through my transmission mesh screen. they must have made it through if the filter had them inside. I have never seen a oil pan screen so I am in the dark.
 
So Shell Rotella T synthetic wouldn't be that good for engines then - cause it has a higher ash content than other engine oils.

ATF thins out the oil yes - but its not going to be pi$$ thin to the point its no longer going to lubricate properly. I wouldn't run it for 5000 miles, just maybe around the block or 3-5 miles tops.

How much is Neutra? I usually find the cheapest ATF out there - less than a buck per quart. I almost always have left over quarts in my storage from past ATF changes.

[ January 02, 2003, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: metroplex ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by Patman:
PCV valves are cheap so yes, do that too. With such low miles though, things like the fuel filter, air filter, spark plugs, etc, can probably go a few years between changes.

i never changed mine on my accord (1991 150k)..should i change my pcv valve??? teh filter isnt getting bad...so i dont think i need to?

hehe im lazy, we have the spark plug wires for his car and havent changed it..hehe the wiresin his car are still factory...we only changed the sparks and distributer cap...

metroplex : he has a manual trannie, maybe i should change out the fluid...

i should change his oil filter...fram might deteriorate...ill go up to bosch like on my car hehe
 
quote:

Originally posted by metroplex:
I would probably just run a quart or two of ATF in his engine...

Metro, ATF is one I've learned not to use. Thins out the oil and tends to have high ash content. Too much creates ring deposits, sludge, fouls plugs... It'll clean its own sludge but the others remain. Good cleaners have lower to no ash.

Neutra costs less for an application.

David
 
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