Relying on the Factory Service Manual

[The Critic]

Lately, I've found that I have been working on a number of cars for friends. Usually these are different makes or models.

I always go the extra effort to review the exact service procedure in the factory service manual before proceeding. It is not uncommon to find that the procedure has some different or unusual steps that you would not expect. I've found aftermarket manuals to be woefully inadequate.

I noticed that most techs do not consult any reference sources while doing a job, then again, they probably wrench on a lot more cars than I do. However, since I do consult the factory service instructions on every unfamiliar car that I work on, does that reflect poorly on my abilities and reinforce my lack of experience?

How would you feel if your tech referenced the instructions for simple jobs, before working on your car? Would you feel uncomfortable that he/she does not already know how to do the job, or would you view it as a positive that he/she is taking the extra step to make sure?

I am curious to hear your opinions.

Thanks.

 

[MarkStock]

I agree with your approach. And while I think that some techs do build up the experience that means that they don't always need to consult service manuals, the vast majority of them don't have the experience or the skill to wing it.

I've had so many problems with mechanics, that I'm quite well versed now in what results when they think they know it all.

 

[RiceCake]

I'll just put it this way, I've heard in my years on this earth, plenty of people telling me the way things "are supposed to be done" or "how they're always done".

Almost unanimously, its never what the manual suggests, the manual written by the people who engineered the car. Or its not what the manufacturer of the shingles recommend for installing it on a roof. Or its not the procedure recommended by the paint company for applying the paint. Etc, etc, etc...

There are certain cases where there is a better way, and I respect good mechanics for knowing a thing or two about it. Some simple stuff I can understand anyone can "figure out" and some techs have plenty of cars down pat and won't blink an eye doing a job without checking a manual.

The main problem is people who can't do the most fundamentally helpful thing anyone can do. Admitting they don't know, and admitting they want to get advice and double check. The manual is advice to live by and anyone who can respect it, awesome.

Problem is checking a manual for a lot of people is admitting you don't know, and doing so is emasculating and shows you somehow must be an idiot who will screw up...

Plenty of people will wing things over personal pride; that being said I study and reference manuals...all manuals I come by...religiously.




Edit: Try asking a mechanic if 0W-30 will destroy your car. Plenty will say its too thin or it doesn't exist before saying they don't know.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Edit: Try asking a mechanic if 0W-30 will destroy your car. Plenty will say its too thin or it doesn't exist before saying they don't know.


And your little strawman proves what precisely ?

 

[eljefino]

There are plenty of "hillbilly" tricks, like using the starter motor on a breaker bar positioned on the crank bolt to work said bolt out, that work 99% of the time. FSMs would have you get "special tool 23420-m2323" to lock everything down then go at it with an impact wrench.

There are categories of repairs, like Girling brake calipers, that, once you figure them out, apply across makes of cars you wouldn't expect, as they were OE parts supplier (that year.)

 

[95busa]

I had an aamco tell me the way they had always done it was to bypass the radiator cooler when installing an external transmission cooler. This lead to an emotionally significant moment tor the manager of aamco.

 

[fdcg27]

If you work on cars every day for a living and you also do the side cash work on weekends that many techs do, you come to be very familiar with the tasks involved, so you probably wouldn't need to consult service or repair documentation to perform a task.
Most indie shops won't have FSMs unless they specialize in a given make. Most will use some online provider like Alldata.
Also, most of the real work, once a problem is diagnosed, involves taking things apart and then reassembling them.
An experienced tech will be able to see exactly how things have to come apart, and you probably can too in most cases.
One real value of the FSM is that it will give accurate torque values, but after working on a few of something, most techs already have these values in their heads.
You have also no doubt learned that while you may need a manual the first time you perform a task, you don't the second time, and the second time also takes about half as long as did the first.
An experienced GM tech can probably do LIMs while sleeping.
One tech I know who worked in a Potiac dealer shop for a number of years said that LIMs paid his mortgage off.

 

[Trav]

It never hurts to look at some reference for info you might overlook.
For most things i use AllData and Mitchell's but when it really get in the weeds the FSM can be a life saver.

Somethings you just cant remember like which way the bevel on a washer needs to go inside the transmission case unless you do this one particular unit often.
Nothing like loosing sleep worrying if you put it in the right way once its all together and down the road.

I hate working without reference, it just plain sucks.

 

[Mr Nice]

Flat rate techs need to work quickly, reading the FSM will slow them down.

 

[Trav]

Most flat rate mechanics i know working in dealerships have it on a terminal at their work station, its quick and they do use it.
Sure they need to be quick but they also need to do it right or they will be doing it for nothing as a comeback.
Books are long gone.

 

[eljefino]

They're good if you can't find a fastener under a thick layer of grime.

 

[GMBoy]

Even though I know a lot about GM assembly and how we build cars and trucks - I still refer to the factory manual for every repair I do. More than half the time I will notice a special process, certain torque value or other important fact that makes sure the job is done correctly. The small details are very important.

Haynes, Chilton's etc are not worth the paper they are written on. They cover too wide a range of model years. The OEM is one year/model specific...no surprises when you begin your job.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Most flat rate mechanics i know working in dealerships have it on a terminal at their work station, its quick and they do use it.
Sure they need to be quick but they also need to do it right or they will be doing it for nothing as a comeback.
Books are long gone.



Yep. I access that system and it's great. Paper versions are still available via Helms.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Flat rate techs need to work quickly, reading the FSM will slow them down.



The GM service Info is web based and searchable and takes seconds to use. I'm sure the other automakers have similar systems. But you are correct - thumbing thru the paper book is too much time.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: RiceCake
I'll just put it this way, I've heard in my years on this earth, plenty of people telling me the way things "are supposed to be done" or "how they're always done".

Almost unanimously, its never what the manual suggests, the manual written by the people who engineered the car. Or its not what the manufacturer of the shingles recommend for installing it on a roof. Or its not the procedure recommended by the paint company for applying the paint. Etc, etc, etc...

There are certain cases where there is a better way, and I respect good mechanics for knowing a thing or two about it. Some simple stuff I can understand anyone can "figure out" and some techs have plenty of cars down pat and won't blink an eye doing a job without checking a manual.

The main problem is people who can't do the most fundamentally helpful thing anyone can do. Admitting they don't know, and admitting they want to get advice and double check. The manual is advice to live by and anyone who can respect it, awesome.

Problem is checking a manual for a lot of people is admitting you don't know, and doing so is emasculating and shows you somehow must be an idiot who will screw up...

Plenty of people will wing things over personal pride; that being said I study and reference manuals...all manuals I come by...religiously.




Edit: Try asking a mechanic if 0W-30 will destroy your car. Plenty will say its too thin or it doesn't exist before saying they don't know.

 

[RiceCake]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Edit: Try asking a mechanic if 0W-30 will destroy your car. Plenty will say its too thin or it doesn't exist before saying they don't know.


And your little strawman proves what precisely ?


Proves exactly what you quoted, try reading it again. People (re: mechanics) need to be willing to educate themselves on topics by admitting they don't know for sure, rather then making assumptions based on potentially highly faulty reasoning.

Edit: Problem is reading the rest of this post plenty of it comes down to the almighty dollar factor. So its a give and take. This is just how I deal with my own cars and educating myself with manuals. In a perfect world people wouldn't have to basically rush everything to make it profitable but as long as it leaves the lot at the end of the day, the shops happy, so just get to it.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: RiceCake


The main problem is people who can't do the most fundamentally helpful thing anyone can do. Admitting they don't know, and admitting they want to get advice and double check. The manual is advice to live by and anyone who can respect it, awesome.

Problem is checking a manual for a lot of people is admitting you don't know, and doing so is emasculating and shows you somehow must be an idiot who will screw up...

Plenty of people will wing things over personal pride; that being said I study and reference manuals...all manuals I come by...religiously.




Wow. That is an awesome post! And it applies to almost everything in life. The moment I finally capitulated and admitted to myself I don't know jack [censored] about most things and I have to logically figure out how things work, from cars, to finance, to plumbing, to anything, was the best day of my life. It's OK to admit you don't know. When you do, it forces you to start learning.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: The Critic




How would you feel if your tech referenced the instructions for simple jobs, before working on your car?


Better!

 

[buster]

Yeah I think RiceCake nailed it.

 

[cutter]

Originally Posted By: buster
Yeah I think RiceCake nailed it.


Ditto. In fact, something like this happened today to me. Involves that other thread about hand tight inner tie rods.