You left out the first part of my comment. I'm not selling so there's no timing of the market. We're actually investing every paycheck. Not going out of may way to invest heavy into a market that's been going up for years based on QE and historically low interest rates is only common sense. Buy in at a discount in a couple years. Do what you want bro. Cashing out home equity to buy stocks right now is retarded. Common sense is my inside scoop.
Refi?
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I have to say, depending upon one's risk level, this makes sense. Put in a nominal amount, but work on paying off the house. If/when the market goes down, then divert more to the stock market. Nobody knows the market, but nobody knows when calamity (job loss, illness, relocation) will occur either.
Over 35 years of working, you'll have more than enough time to invest.
15 year mortgage is the best option for many.
15 year mortgage is the best option for many.
Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: daves66nova
I'm doing a refi, from 3.25 to 2.75. 30 year fixed each. VA loan. Does the mortgage company charge for doing these loans? They are charging me 3,9XX for "buying down" the apr. Is there a company that does it for free? Probably not. First time I ever refinance. Thanks
Have you made some Excel sheets showing total money paid? Do you save $3,900 over 30 years by changing from 3.25% down to 2.75%?
I'd make a sheet for each scenario. 30 year at 3.25%, 30 year at 2.75%, and every iteration you can come up with. You can then compare the cost of going with one vendor over another. Should not hurt to look at local banks either, maybe they have a better loan (or not). 3.25% doesn't seem that great, I thought all loans were under 3% right now; but maybe I'm confusing that with 15 year loans.
The bank that has my mortgage has their rates online, along with closing costs. Pretty trivial to look around I think, or maybe even go in and ask.
I don't know how and never used excel,word or other programs like that. I'm only 3.5 years into buying the house. I'm going to be saving around 200 a month after i refi, so I figured in 4 years or so I should recoup that 3,9xx. No bank or lending co. goes under 3.25 for a 30 fixed that I've called
Originally Posted By: daves66nova
I'm doing a refi, from 3.25 to 2.75. 30 year fixed each. VA loan. Does the mortgage company charge for doing these loans? They are charging me 3,9XX for "buying down" the apr. Is there a company that does it for free? Probably not. First time I ever refinance. Thanks
Have you made some Excel sheets showing total money paid? Do you save $3,900 over 30 years by changing from 3.25% down to 2.75%?
I'd make a sheet for each scenario. 30 year at 3.25%, 30 year at 2.75%, and every iteration you can come up with. You can then compare the cost of going with one vendor over another. Should not hurt to look at local banks either, maybe they have a better loan (or not). 3.25% doesn't seem that great, I thought all loans were under 3% right now; but maybe I'm confusing that with 15 year loans.
The bank that has my mortgage has their rates online, along with closing costs. Pretty trivial to look around I think, or maybe even go in and ask.
I don't know how and never used excel,word or other programs like that. I'm only 3.5 years into buying the house. I'm going to be saving around 200 a month after i refi, so I figured in 4 years or so I should recoup that 3,9xx. No bank or lending co. goes under 3.25 for a 30 fixed that I've called
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No set time. Probably 10-15 years,who knows.
I forgot, I've been adding an extra 50.00 to principal ever since first loan started.
Payment Information
Scheduled Payment Breakdown: Last Payment Breakdown:
Next Payment Due* 10/01/2016
Principal & Interest $1,057.55
Homeowner's Insurance(s) $34.25
County Tax $266.94
Shortage $66.93
10/01/2016 Scheduled Payment $1,425.67
Payments received more than 16 days after the
payment due date may require a late charge of $57.03.
* If Next Payment Due date is in the past, additional payments, charges and/or fees may be required to bring your loan current.
Principal Received $502.60
Interest Received $604.95
Escrow Received $368.12
Year-To-Date Totals
Principal $4,474.81 Property Taxes $1,601.62
Interest $5,493.14 Hazard Insurance $536.00
Scheduled Payment Breakdown: Last Payment Breakdown:
Next Payment Due* 10/01/2016
Principal & Interest $1,057.55
Homeowner's Insurance(s) $34.25
County Tax $266.94
Shortage $66.93
10/01/2016 Scheduled Payment $1,425.67
Payments received more than 16 days after the
payment due date may require a late charge of $57.03.
* If Next Payment Due date is in the past, additional payments, charges and/or fees may be required to bring your loan current.
Principal Received $502.60
Interest Received $604.95
Escrow Received $368.12
Year-To-Date Totals
Principal $4,474.81 Property Taxes $1,601.62
Interest $5,493.14 Hazard Insurance $536.00
Plug all your numbers into a calculator. http://www.realtor.com/mortgage/tools/refinance-calculator/
This is what I got, assuming I did it right; With this refinance you will:
Save monthly $137
Save over the lifetime of the loan $1,988
Your monthly payment will decrease
$137/mo
New monthly payment
$921/mo
Break even
2 Years 5 Months
Refinance costs
$3,954
My reduction in payment is around 200,according to the numbers the lending co. gave me.
Save monthly $137
Save over the lifetime of the loan $1,988
Your monthly payment will decrease
$137/mo
New monthly payment
$921/mo
Break even
2 Years 5 Months
Refinance costs
$3,954
My reduction in payment is around 200,according to the numbers the lending co. gave me.
Originally Posted By: hatt
You left out the first part of my comment. I'm not selling so there's no timing of the market. We're actually investing every paycheck. Not going out of may way to invest heavy into a market that's been going up for years based on QE and historically low interest rates is only common sense. Buy in at a discount in a couple years. Do what you want bro. Cashing out home equity to buy stocks right now is retarded. Common sense is my inside scoop.
There's a purchase and a sale for each transaction, you said in your last statement that you are waiting to sell because the market is likely on the way down, when it does go down you should dump money in at a discount.
That's timing the market. Great advice - so the market will go down "in the future". What's that mean? Are you catching a falling knife or has it hit the floor? How do you know when you've hit the floor?
It's advice like that that explains why indexes outperform managed funds the majority of the time.
You left out the first part of my comment. I'm not selling so there's no timing of the market. We're actually investing every paycheck. Not going out of may way to invest heavy into a market that's been going up for years based on QE and historically low interest rates is only common sense. Buy in at a discount in a couple years. Do what you want bro. Cashing out home equity to buy stocks right now is retarded. Common sense is my inside scoop.
There's a purchase and a sale for each transaction, you said in your last statement that you are waiting to sell because the market is likely on the way down, when it does go down you should dump money in at a discount.
That's timing the market. Great advice - so the market will go down "in the future". What's that mean? Are you catching a falling knife or has it hit the floor? How do you know when you've hit the floor?
It's advice like that that explains why indexes outperform managed funds the majority of the time.
Get the lending co print out the actual numbers and compare them side by side with your current loan. Also look at a shorter term. You see you're saving money every month but not actually saving much over the life of the loan since the new loan is longer. Unless you're needing to lower payments for financial reasons I'd pick the term that gives you payments about like you currently have. That will save you a ton. Shorter term also typically gets you lower rates. You win both ways. If the rates aren't much different, you can also just put $4000 on the principle and knock years off the loan. Many ways to do things.
Originally Posted By: 99Saturn
Originally Posted By: hatt
You left out the first part of my comment. I'm not selling so there's no timing of the market. We're actually investing every paycheck. Not going out of may way to invest heavy into a market that's been going up for years based on QE and historically low interest rates is only common sense. Buy in at a discount in a couple years. Do what you want bro. Cashing out home equity to buy stocks right now is retarded. Common sense is my inside scoop.
There's a purchase and a sale for each transaction, you said in your last statement that you are waiting to sell because the market is likely on the way down, when it does go down you should dump money in at a discount.
That's timing the market. Great advice - so the market will go down "in the future". What's that mean? Are you catching a falling knife or has it hit the floor? How do you know when you've hit the floor?
It's advice like that that explains why indexes outperform managed funds the majority of the time.
You're making up stuff. Here's the full quote. Make sure you read the bold text this time. Highlight where I said anything about selling.
Quote:
No one is touting the actual long term returns. The market gamble doesn't look nearly as good. The bottom line is anyone who formulates a sensible strategy and sticks with it for 50 years is likely going to be doing pretty good. My strategy is to be totally debt free in a few years. Then I have more money to dump into whatever. I see no reason to put extra money(wife already puts in whatever her employer matches) into the stock market right now if I can pay off debts I already have. The market is likely on it's way down. When it goes down. Then dump money into it at a discount.
It's a simple concept. During regular times buy a baseline amount. When you're getting a discount, stock up. You can use this formula for most things.
Originally Posted By: hatt
You left out the first part of my comment. I'm not selling so there's no timing of the market. We're actually investing every paycheck. Not going out of may way to invest heavy into a market that's been going up for years based on QE and historically low interest rates is only common sense. Buy in at a discount in a couple years. Do what you want bro. Cashing out home equity to buy stocks right now is retarded. Common sense is my inside scoop.
There's a purchase and a sale for each transaction, you said in your last statement that you are waiting to sell because the market is likely on the way down, when it does go down you should dump money in at a discount.
That's timing the market. Great advice - so the market will go down "in the future". What's that mean? Are you catching a falling knife or has it hit the floor? How do you know when you've hit the floor?
It's advice like that that explains why indexes outperform managed funds the majority of the time.
You're making up stuff. Here's the full quote. Make sure you read the bold text this time. Highlight where I said anything about selling.
Quote:
No one is touting the actual long term returns. The market gamble doesn't look nearly as good. The bottom line is anyone who formulates a sensible strategy and sticks with it for 50 years is likely going to be doing pretty good. My strategy is to be totally debt free in a few years. Then I have more money to dump into whatever. I see no reason to put extra money(wife already puts in whatever her employer matches) into the stock market right now if I can pay off debts I already have. The market is likely on it's way down. When it goes down. Then dump money into it at a discount.
It's a simple concept. During regular times buy a baseline amount. When you're getting a discount, stock up. You can use this formula for most things.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: 99Saturn
Originally Posted By: hatt
You left out the first part of my comment. I'm not selling so there's no timing of the market. We're actually investing every paycheck. Not going out of may way to invest heavy into a market that's been going up for years based on QE and historically low interest rates is only common sense. Buy in at a discount in a couple years. Do what you want bro. Cashing out home equity to buy stocks right now is retarded. Common sense is my inside scoop.
There's a purchase and a sale for each transaction, you said in your last statement that you are waiting to sell because the market is likely on the way down, when it does go down you should dump money in at a discount.
That's timing the market. Great advice - so the market will go down "in the future". What's that mean? Are you catching a falling knife or has it hit the floor? How do you know when you've hit the floor?
It's advice like that that explains why indexes outperform managed funds the majority of the time.
You're making up stuff. Here's the full quote. Make sure you read the bold text this time. Highlight where I said anything about selling.
Quote:
No one is touting the actual long term returns. The market gamble doesn't look nearly as good. The bottom line is anyone who formulates a sensible strategy and sticks with it for 50 years is likely going to be doing pretty good. My strategy is to be totally debt free in a few years. Then I have more money to dump into whatever. I see no reason to put extra money(wife already puts in whatever her employer matches) into the stock market right now if I can pay off debts I already have. The market is likely on it's way down. When it goes down. Then dump money into it at a discount.
It's a simple concept. During regular times buy a baseline amount. When you're getting a discount, stock up. You can use this formula for most things.
Your correct, I meant to say, "you said you are waiting to buy to because the market is likely on the way down" (pretty logical you wouldn't be waiting to sell when the market is down, but if you want to call it making stuff up versus a typo, no problem).
Are you going to answer my question regarding knowing you hit the floor vs. catching a falling knife? Is that not important to the formula? I'm sure every fund manager would like to know where you buy your crystal ball.
Originally Posted By: 99Saturn
Originally Posted By: hatt
You left out the first part of my comment. I'm not selling so there's no timing of the market. We're actually investing every paycheck. Not going out of may way to invest heavy into a market that's been going up for years based on QE and historically low interest rates is only common sense. Buy in at a discount in a couple years. Do what you want bro. Cashing out home equity to buy stocks right now is retarded. Common sense is my inside scoop.
There's a purchase and a sale for each transaction, you said in your last statement that you are waiting to sell because the market is likely on the way down, when it does go down you should dump money in at a discount.
That's timing the market. Great advice - so the market will go down "in the future". What's that mean? Are you catching a falling knife or has it hit the floor? How do you know when you've hit the floor?
It's advice like that that explains why indexes outperform managed funds the majority of the time.
You're making up stuff. Here's the full quote. Make sure you read the bold text this time. Highlight where I said anything about selling.
Quote:
No one is touting the actual long term returns. The market gamble doesn't look nearly as good. The bottom line is anyone who formulates a sensible strategy and sticks with it for 50 years is likely going to be doing pretty good. My strategy is to be totally debt free in a few years. Then I have more money to dump into whatever. I see no reason to put extra money(wife already puts in whatever her employer matches) into the stock market right now if I can pay off debts I already have. The market is likely on it's way down. When it goes down. Then dump money into it at a discount.
It's a simple concept. During regular times buy a baseline amount. When you're getting a discount, stock up. You can use this formula for most things.
Your correct, I meant to say, "you said you are waiting to buy to because the market is likely on the way down" (pretty logical you wouldn't be waiting to sell when the market is down, but if you want to call it making stuff up versus a typo, no problem).
Are you going to answer my question regarding knowing you hit the floor vs. catching a falling knife? Is that not important to the formula? I'm sure every fund manager would like to know where you buy your crystal ball.
Doesn't have to bottom out--if you buy near the bottom, you're still better off than if you had bought at the top. Even if it drops a bit more, who cares? It'll be back up in a few years, and hopefully well past what you bought in at. No need to wait until it's bottomed out, or going back up.
So what's a reasonable plan for adjustment downward that constitutes a time to buy, and in what time frame from where we are today? Again, it's easy to say, buy when the market is lower, it's a lot harder to say, this is when to buy (either today or at that moment in time) and beat index performance in the long run.
If 1. we don't need to know the floor and 2. it sounds to me like we don't need to talk about upside between then and now because we're at historic highs, we must be able to put our arms around some type of range today that will constitute when it's good to buy.
Originally Posted By: supton
Doesn't have to bottom out--if you buy near the bottom, you're still better off than if you had bought at the top. Even if it drops a bit more, who cares? It'll be back up in a few years, and hopefully well past what you bought in at. No need to wait until it's bottomed out, or going back up.
I wholeheartedly agree with the portion above in bold, hence the appeal to index - set it and forget it, as I've been asking about for a few pages. I don't need to worry that I'm at the bottom (or today's top IMO, after all we had to break the last all time high to get here). I'd add dollar cost averaging rather than looking for the next drop though.
If 1. we don't need to know the floor and 2. it sounds to me like we don't need to talk about upside between then and now because we're at historic highs, we must be able to put our arms around some type of range today that will constitute when it's good to buy.
Originally Posted By: supton
Doesn't have to bottom out--if you buy near the bottom, you're still better off than if you had bought at the top. Even if it drops a bit more, who cares? It'll be back up in a few years, and hopefully well past what you bought in at. No need to wait until it's bottomed out, or going back up.
I wholeheartedly agree with the portion above in bold, hence the appeal to index - set it and forget it, as I've been asking about for a few pages. I don't need to worry that I'm at the bottom (or today's top IMO, after all we had to break the last all time high to get here). I'd add dollar cost averaging rather than looking for the next drop though.
I certainly couldn't come up with a numerical answer. Pure gut reaction, in response to one's level of risk acceptance.
Personally, I'd say, if one was debt free, then unless if one "knows" the market then it's probably better to not time, and just buy, even if it's high. Just pick an index fund and be done. However, if one has debt, and is risk adverse, and thinks the market is overpriced, then pay down the debt (mortgage or otherwise), and wait. Otherwise... pick a blend that hits makes one sleep at night.
I personally am not sure what I'm going to do--with a couple of loans out of the way, do I want to pay down the mortgage and be "free" of that mortgage and thus able to weather paycuts and rocky economic future; or do I want to play the long view and stack that money instead into retirement, in high hopes of bad weather never getting that bad.
Personally, I'd say, if one was debt free, then unless if one "knows" the market then it's probably better to not time, and just buy, even if it's high. Just pick an index fund and be done. However, if one has debt, and is risk adverse, and thinks the market is overpriced, then pay down the debt (mortgage or otherwise), and wait. Otherwise... pick a blend that hits makes one sleep at night.
I personally am not sure what I'm going to do--with a couple of loans out of the way, do I want to pay down the mortgage and be "free" of that mortgage and thus able to weather paycuts and rocky economic future; or do I want to play the long view and stack that money instead into retirement, in high hopes of bad weather never getting that bad.
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