Redline 5w30 in Integra Tyep R

pyromaster · Dec 4, 2002

Here is my analysis of redline 5w30 at ~3300 miles with a 2 day track event on it. I'm also posting my previous numbers of Mobil1 5w30 of ~3300 miles with no track time for comparison
overall, the redline numbers seem a little higher, but that could be because of the track event or perhaps because i just switched to redline. Thanks to Terry for the analysis.

jeff

result- redline, M1
Copper- 6, 5
Iron- 10, 7
chrome- 2, 1
lead- 12, 3
aluminum- 6, 3
silicon- 10, 7
moly- 569, 47
sodium- 12, 7
magnesium- 29, 102
tin- 0, 1
zinc- 1220, 577
potassium- 13, 11
phosphorus- 1090, 526
calcium- 2530, 1750
water- negative, negative
Fuel- negative, negative
Antifreeze- negative, negative
soot- 0, 0
oxidation- 34, 32
nitration- 78, 70
sulfur- 60, 58
TBN- 10, 10
Vis@100C- 11.5, 10.5

satterfi · Dec 4, 2002

Maybe you ought to use RL 10w40 before you flog your car at the track again.

5w30 seems a bit thin for track duty.

mdv · Dec 4, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by satterfi:
Maybe you ought to use RL 10w40 before you flog your car at the track again.

5w30 seems a bit thin for track duty.

I've used 5w30's on the track with 8k intervals in between changes and my wear numbers looked fine. I don't think there's much danger in using a high quality synthetic 5w30 in a relatively new Japanese motor on the track.

The only real difference I see with the Redline vs. Mobil 1 is the lead. That doesn't seem too high for a flogged Honda.

Pyromaster: Is the "track" a dragstrip or roadcourse that you were on?

[ December 04, 2002, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: mdv ]

satterfi · Dec 4, 2002

I'm suggesting the RL 10w40 might be a better choice for a hard driven engine.

10w40 is the recommended weight for motorcycles for good reason.

I suppose RL 5w30 works fine but as Honda car engines approach motorcycle performance, you may rethink what is best versus what works OK.

I know I'm in the minority around here. I don't use anything thinner than 10w40 in my cars or bikes.

sprintman · Dec 4, 2002

satterfi
I'm with you. Track use I'd have 5/10W40 RL or even M1 15W50. Definitely not a 5W30!!

mdv · Dec 4, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by satterfi:

I suppose RL 5w30 works fine but as Honda car engines approach motorcycle performance, you may rethink what is best versus what works OK.

Good point, I hadn't thought of it that way.

TooSlick · Dec 4, 2002

Every Redline analysis I've seen shows elevated levels of lead from the main bearings. I believe it is the very high amount of moly that is causing this. It may be beneficial to have 600 ppm of moly for racing applications, but I think it is the wrong formulation chemistry for street use.

You will note in this analysis that ALL the wear metal numbers are lower for Mobil 1. I think Mobil 1 is simply a better synthetic for street applications, period.

satterfi · Dec 4, 2002

TooSlick

Read my Redline results.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000089

In a month I can take a sample of M1 15w50 from one on my cars and replace the oil with RL 10w40. Then next July I can sample the RL and compare.

TooSlick · Dec 4, 2002

satterfi,

This engine has different metallurgy from most car engines, so it isn't a good comparison. All the car engines with lead overlays on the main bearings show elevated lead levels with the Redline chemistry.

I don't buy into this idea that there is some sort of cleaning effect going on here. I've seen this on low mileage engines that had been running Mobil 1, so I know they are super clean inside.

BTW, your analysis is the exception that proves the rule - it is not at all representative of the other Redline analyses I've seen ....

Terry · Dec 4, 2002

Slick, I disagree. As I wondered the same thing earlier on with Redline, Checkout the Toyota 3.0L Redline test posted here on Bobs, we ran.

I have noticed after running Redline for more than one cycle the soft metals stabilize. Also you'll see lead in a clean sample of their oils.

Remember the M1 was not raced like the Redline so that has to be taken into consideration.

Redline does seem to reduce wear in the LS 1 engines that drive me nuts in soft metal production.

satterfi · Dec 4, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by TooSlick:

snip

All the car engines with lead overlays on the main bearings show elevated lead levels with the Redline chemistry.

snip....

TooSlick

If it is chemistry that’s causing Redline to remove Pb from the bearings in car engines while M1 doesn’t, maybe a test can be devised to test that hypothesis.

Something like cook two bearings, one in RL and one in M1 at elevated temperature for a month. Then test the oils for Pb.

I’m not a metallurgist so maybe this is a stupid idea.

TooSlick · Dec 5, 2002

Terry,

So they are using Lead Napthanate as an antiwear additive? I thought that was Taboo according to the American Petroleum Institute? Not that I'm a big fan of theirs

Terry · Dec 5, 2002

Slick you of all here know I could never publicly address a formulation question like that about a prospective corporate analysis customer's product.

[ December 05, 2002, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: Terry ]

dragboat · Dec 5, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by Terry:
Slick you of all here know I could never publicly address a formulation question like that about a prospective corporate analysis customer's product.

Looks like you just answered the question though

Greg · Dec 5, 2002

quote:

Originally posted by Terry:
Slick you of all here know I could never publicly address a formulation question like that about a prospective corporate analysis customer's product.

um, right. so how about that answer?

The_Oz · Dec 5, 2002

pyromaster

Two questions:

1) Was there any makeup oil added in either samples?

2) What were the average ambient temperatures that the engine was exposed in for both oils?

Thanks,

Oz

P.S. I have no hard data yet, but I received some info from a New Zealander about his B18C engine for his GS-R Integra. Although, both the GSR B18C and the Type-R B18C share similar features, I would rather get some real evidence of Honda recommending thicker than 30wt. oils on any B-series VTEC engines.

slider · Dec 5, 2002

Originally posted by Terry:

Checkout the Toyota 3.0L Redline test posted here on Bobs, we ran.

***

Has that been posted? I haven't seen it and i have been looking for it.

TIA

Terry · Dec 5, 2002

Thought it was, I'll post it as soon as I get a chance.

Bror Jace · Dec 5, 2002

pyromaster, which oil did you run first? The Red Line or the Mobil 1?

--- Bror Jace

pyromaster · Dec 5, 2002

Hi all
Thanks for all the feedback. Let me answer some questions/ add some more info:

mdv- the track i referred to was a road course (Roebling Road) not a drag strip. i was on it about 4 hours total ~250 miles

The_Oz- for your 1st question when you say 'makeup oil' i'm assuming you mean adding any oil in after the initial change, correct? If so, i added about 1 1/4 qts of Redline (3/4 qt at the track and 1/2 later on). With M1 i usually only had to add 1/4-1/2 qt although with M1 i would change it before and after any track event.
As for your 2nd question, i really don't have any info on the engine bay temperature. As for outside air temp, we're talking about Atlanta from late july until nov for the Redline, so rather warm

Bror Jace- as terry said, the M1 sample was done first and then i switched to Redline and did this sample.

Overall, i feel i should clarify that the M1 sample i posted was M1 Tri-Syn not SuperSyn.
Also, since last analysis I am running more redline 5w30 which i plan to keep in for 5-6k and then have it analyzed and we'll see how that sample looks.

jeff

Redline 5w30 in Integra Tyep R

Similar threads