Redline 0w20 17000 mi 04 Accord

[spiderbypass]

This is a 2004 Honda Accord 2.4 engine 150000 on car-17,000 on oil nine months of service. I added 1.5 quarts 0w20 and .5 quart of 5w20 redline oil (last added 5w20 about 100 miles before changing the oil) in the duration with a five ounce Auto RX maintenance dose. I also used a six ounce does of oil extreme at the 3000 mile mark. Oil Extreme is a TBN booster and adds Calcium Carbonate. I remembered an old oil report with 10w30 redline with oil extreme. I figured since redline has lower tbn and does not use extensive amount of calcium-would be ok.

I noticed my coolant overflow tank had a slimy feel with with some discoloration that looked like rust after I sent the analysis into Polaris. I just got the radiator flushed with Honda coolant two days ago. It is not the original Honda radiator. It is the second replacement radiator that was put in after deer struck my car, or for animal lovers, I struck the deer. The first replacement radiator cracked and this one has been in the car for about 20000 miles. I did use Amsoil fuel treatment every four thousand miles during this 17, 000 miles run. The car used a larger Amsoil EAO 20 filter (I do not think they have the 13 filters anymore) and have oil guard bypass 15 on vehicle. I have an Amsoil air filter that is cleaned every oil change has about 60 thousand on it total. Drive about 120 miles daily in rush hour traffic, some city, and clear highway when come home later from work in Baltimore, York Pa area. 2004 accord manual 4 cylinder engine has 150000 on engine. I put redline 0w30 in at oil change. May or may not add the oil extreme. I am a bit worried about fuel and sodium potassium levels. I am worried about 6% fuel.

ALUMINUM----------------1

CHROMIUM----------------0

IRON-----------------------22

COPPER--------------------2

LEAD-----------------------1

TIN--------------------------1

MOLBDENUM---------------561

NICKEL---------------------0

MANGANESE--------------0

SILVER----------------------0

TITANIUM------------------1

POTASSIUM----------------32

BORON---------------------6

SILICON--------------------13

SODIUM--------------------110

CALCIUM-------------------4511

MAGNESIUM---------------20

PHOSPHORUS--------------900

ZINC------------------------977

BARIUM--------------------2


100 C CS VISCOSITY 8.9
FUEL % ……………………………… 6.0%
WATER %...................... Soot Volume %................
TBN…………………………………… 6.00

 

[BobFout]

What is the flashpoint of this sample?

PDS shows the 100C visco is 8.2 for 0w20, 9.1 for Red Line 5w20. I don't see how there's 6% fuel in there.

 

[c3po]

Who did the Oil Analysis?

 

[spasm3]

I think the head gasket is suspect.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
I think the head gasket is suspect.


I do too, pressure test the cooling system to be sure!

 

[INDYMAC]

6% fuel dilution? I don't think I've ever seen one that high.

Yes, HG is suspect, but wear metals look good.

 

[J. A. Rizzo]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I find it ironic that you have such an elaborate, expensive, and overwrought oil routine with a signature that reads "Insecurity with overcompensation are the root of evil deeds." Shouldn't you just pour in some dino Pennzoil 5W-20 twice a year and call it good?

Sorry - I couldn't resist!

 

[hounddog]

To me you kinda ruined the oil analysis and oil by adding that other gunk to the oil.Good oil dosen't need voodoo doctoring.

 

[Gary Allan]

The Oil Extreme has some questionable content. I think it's a chlorinated paraffin. The effects, in terms of friction modification (iirc), erode after a relatively short mileage. This makes it an expensive product. You shouldn't need a TBN boost over the duration of time/miles you're doing.

The potassium/sodium deal would concern me too.

 

[Tempest]

http://www.oilextreme.com/oil1.html

They seem to put down chlorinated products so I don't think it has any.

Not sure if calcium carbonate in motor oil will provide meaningful or "better" (as opposed to ZDDP) tribo films as they claim. It is used in greases for this, but at MUCH higher levels.

It should be a great TBN booster.

 

[spiderbypass]

Polaris did the oil sample and do not provide flash-point. I agree with J.A. Rizzo...I think my lack of mechanical knowledge leads to overkill with oil routine. I also drive quite a bit, put about 10 thousand miles on Toyota Tercel during same time frame. I am always tempted to get new car and think buying stuff for oil kind of keeps me interested in this one. I think I would likely use steroids if played baseball. I forget to mention...I also put some lube control in the mix lol .

 

[spiderbypass]

I just noticed the horizon oil analysis listed my engine as diesel. I clicked on the fuel dilution page and did not quite understand the following passage. I wondered if they estimated the fuel dilution based on the lower viscosity of the oil and if they assumed orinal oil viscosity was 40 weight.
Fuel Dilution %

Definition
Fuel Dilution is the amount of raw, unburned fuel that ends up in the crankcase. It lowers an oil�s viscosity and flash point creating friction-related wear almost immediately by reducing film strength.
Standard Test Method Used
GC by the traditional ASTM D3524 and D3525 methodology has proven to be a time-consuming process and highly stressful on the instrumentation. FTIR has been considered a viable alternative but often requires confirmation by additional testing for flash point. An improved GC method by PerkinElmer Life and Analytical Sciences is much better at differentiating between components after separation, which significantly improves the accuracy of GC results. POLARIS uses this improved GC method to confirm fuel dilution.
Reporting Measurement
%
Amount of Sample Needed
40 mL
Test Limitation
Because a #2 diesel fuel typically has a viscosity of around 1.7-2.1 cSt at 40�C, which is thinner than a typical 15W40 engine oil with a viscosity of around 14.7 cSt at 100�C, fuel dilution reduces the engine oil's viscosity. When the oil's viscosity varies by more than one (1) cSt from the known starting viscosity of the oil when new, we will confirm fuel dilution by the new GC method reporting the result as we do currently - as percent by volume. However, if lubricant grade is not included with the sample, fuel dilution will be confirmed by GC if viscosity is below 13.3 cSt for a diesel engine oil and below 9.8 cSt for a gasoline engine oil. If viscosity is above the oil's mid-point for the grade, fuel dilution will be reported as <1.0 %

 

[Nederlander75]

Regardless of fuel dilution and oil adds your UOA was good with regard to wear. Personally Id say you have a good set up to just run RL for the 15 to 18 OCI, no adds, and only treat rates for the fuel system. IE an OZ or 2 ea tank depending on the fuel add, FP Plus, RL SL1, etc. Get a Dyson Analysis too, given the extended OCIs you are likely recovering some of the cost to compensate your OCD.

Good UOA

 

[Gene K]

I would have liked to have had a Flash Point.

Given the overall good wear numbers and high viscosity 6% fuel is hard to believe. I wonder if one of the adds you used is masquerading as fuel.

I would like to see what it looked like with a couple of 5000 mile runs on unmolested conventional 5W20 that does not use sodium in the add pack.

Alternately you could leave this run of Redline unmolested and send it to Terry Dyson instead of Polaris. This might be one of those cases were he is well worth the $99.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
http://www.oilextreme.com/oil1.html

They seem to put down chlorinated products so I don't think it has any.

Not sure if calcium carbonate in motor oil will provide meaningful or "better" (as opposed to ZDDP) tribo films as they claim. It is used in greases for this, but at MUCH higher levels.

It should be a great TBN booster.


You appear to be correct. I may be mistaking it for another product with EXTREME in the name. I recall Terry giving it a review years ago. There appeared to be some benefits to it, but with some 3000 mile type limitation on anything he could measure. Given the cost (I think over $30 at the time) it was very expensive for what you got out of it.

 

[addyguy]

Hard to comment on this one.

Technically, at first glance, results are amazing for 17k miles - metals, visc., TBN, all really good.

But going one level lower, you have potassium and sodium showing up, and the report claims 6% fuel.

Doesn't sound good, maybe you were lucky the additives added some protection?

 

[Johnny]

That oil does not need any help. No Oil Extreme and no ARX.

Agree with everyone else on checking for head gasket leak.

 

[[RT] ProjUltraZ]

ARx in Redline is like adding sugar to soda

 

[spiderbypass]

I really need to stop being penny wise and dollar stupid and get Terry Dyson to analyze sample. I called Polaris to ask about fuel measurement. The "analyst" could not say exactly, but said "your viscosity went way down from a 0w20 oil and that usually means fuel. " I tried to tell him it was in range, but he sounded agitated and insisted that it went up. After we hung up, it dawned on me he was saying the 8.9 viscosity went down because he was using the number 20 as a reference point....



I agree auto rx and redline are probably not best mix, but then again-what is the actual percentage of polyglycol esters in redline with flashpoint of 421 on 0w20 oil. I have never seen redline analysis showing that high of a flashpoint in virgin or used samples.

 

[[RT] ProjUltraZ]

Originally Posted By: spiderbypass
I really need to stop being penny wise and dollar stupid and get Terry Dyson to analyze sample.


if you ended that sentence with "get a reputable shop to check for a head gasket leak," you would have heard a distant cheer across the land