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Count me as one that won't buy Purolator. I'm observing that they have been assuming most people don't cut open their oil filters and won't find a tear, and they are caught with their pants down now that people are reporting it. If they cared, they would sample in the field. They just wanted to play the "If nobody knows (not cut open) then we don't care."
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
That's exactly it. Is it fixed? When was/will it be fixed?

What is the "it" to be fixed? Purolator doesn't appear to know, nor does anyone on BITOG posting on the topic.

Pick another brand of filter and move on with your life. Free floating anxiety is a terrible burden to live with.
 
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: Garak
That's exactly it. Is it fixed? When was/will it be fixed?

What is the "it" to be fixed?


Tearing media ... remember all the photos posted recently? I forgot, you think it's nothing to worry about.
grin.gif


And I do agree ... if anyone is uneasy about using Purolator then go use a different brand filter until you think they have resolved the issue.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I forgot, you think it's nothing to worry about.

No, I never said that. But then precision or accuracy of any kind does not appear to be one of your concerns.

What I said was:

- it is not clear that these small tears or slits substantially impair the operation of the oil filters

- it is not clear that a large percentage of Purolator oil filters have small tears or slits

- the data to project on to the universe of Purolator oil filters with any degree of accuracy does not exist

- I have at least one Purolator manufactured oil filter on my shelf and will use it without concern when it comes up in rotation

You demonstrably have such little regard for accuracy and the facts that I am not surprised that you'd add my statements to your mischaracterizations, distortions, and fabrications.
 
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I forgot, you think it's nothing to worry about.

No, I never said that. But then precision or accuracy of any kind does not appear to be one of your concerns.

What I said was:

- it is not clear that these small tears or slits substantially impair the operation of the oil filters

- it is not clear that a large percentage of Purolator oil filters have small tears or slits

- the data to project on to the universe of Purolator oil filters with any degree of accuracy does not exist

- I have at least one Purolator manufactured oil filter on my shelf and will use it without concern when it comes up in rotation

You demonstrably have such little regard for accuracy and the facts that I am not surprised that you'd add my statements to your mischaracterizations, distortions, and fabrications.






I nominate Wilhelm to devise a reporting thread, so we can have some sound, scientifically- and statistically-valid data to perform our own high-confidence assessment of this issue. If it can be done, I will do it, if someone else doesnt first.
 
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I forgot, you think it's nothing to worry about.

No, I never said that. But then precision or accuracy of any kind does not appear to be one of your concerns.


From your whole persona in all these discussions, it is totally clear that you think this is not a big deal and people shouldn't worry about it. You don't have to specifically say it. You do understand that people say what they think through their thoughts and expressions on something without actually coming out and saying it.

You just said above in so many words that you are not worried about it. That's fine for YOU ... but not for others here who express otherwise. You think that just because you are 1 of 300 guys here that doesn't care about the tearing issue, that everyone else should think just like you and just shrug it off and not even discuss it. That's pretty arrogant of you I'd say.
 
Originally Posted By: TriboGeek
I nominate Wilhelm to devise a reporting thread, so we can have some sound, scientifically- and statistically-valid data to perform our own high-confidence assessment of this issue. If it can be done, I will do it, if someone else doesnt first.


He wouldn't know what to do because he thinks it's all just normal randomness and there's really not a problem to address. He claims that Purolator doesn't say there is an issue ... or are they just not wanting to say there is (?). I think the latter.
 
Originally Posted By: TriboGeek
I nominate Wilhelm to devise a reporting thread, so we can have some sound, scientifically- and statistically-valid data to perform our own high-confidence assessment of this issue.

Believe it or not Purolator has engineers and an entire QC team to assess the issue.

I plan on letting them do so. Now if the nattering nabobs of negativism can put a sock in it long enough to let Purolator do that, we can all get a break.
 
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: TriboGeek
I nominate Wilhelm to devise a reporting thread, so we can have some sound, scientifically- and statistically-valid data to perform our own high-confidence assessment of this issue.

Believe it or not Purolator has engineers and an entire QC team to assess the issue.

I plan on letting them do so. Now if the nattering nabobs of negativism can put a sock in it long enough to let Purolator do that, we can all get a break.


But you eluded in your recent postings that Purolator isn't doing really doing anything to address this issue based on their letter. Make up your mind. You better call them up and tell them to get on it just in case they forgot about it.
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
But you eluded in your recent postings that Purolator isn't doing really doing anything to address this issue based on their letter.

No, I did not.
 
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
But you eluded in your recent postings that Purolator isn't doing really doing anything to address this issue based on their letter.

No, I did not.


From this posting of yours:
Click Here

You are saying that you think Purolator is NOT specifically addressing this issue, but simply making random product "improvements" that might fix the problem. Guess it's the old "shotgun" approach.

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D

The phrase "all that analysis" is not supported by the letter.

He's saying they incorporated some changes that may resolve the issue.


"We have done some physical and theoretical analysis (to include another 45 minutes just this afternoon) and have implemented a few improvements."

As he said, they are always making improvements. Since he doesn't indicate there is an issue, nor that they have found an issue, saying that they made changes that might resolve the issue is not only not supported by the plain text, it's outright fabrication.

Since that appears to be your modus operandi, I'll just leave it there.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
From this posting of yours:

Which demonstrates I did not.

I don't know why you are mounting this crusade, nor what axe you have to grind at Purolator, but you are wasting your time with anyone who can read English and knows anything at all about oil filters.
 
Several years ago, Kryptonite bike locks had terrible publicity. It appeared on the internet that their circle type locks could be open with a pen. They acknowledged they screwed up and gave free replacements for all locks effected. Purolater, seems to just want to sweep this under the rug. I'm sure some executives are surprised that people cut open their oil filters to inspect them. I'm glad I found this site and promptly threw out my last Classic.
 
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D

Believe it or not Purolator has engineers and an entire QC team to assess the issue.



Exactly....

It's asinine to think Purolator doesn't sample their production, place the filters on a test bench, and test them to failure (real failure) on a regular basis.

They make filters for a living.

I'll even go a step further.

They know exactly what the problem was, the appoximate build dates for suspect filters, and they have already notified their supplier that there was a issue with a specific batch (or batches) of filter media.

That's why they encouraged the OP to buy recent production.

Purolator also has deciphered the risk to consumers and potential liability the company has for the media tear issue. With 80% of the media intact and multipass filtration in modern engines, that risk is zero.

Companies that build millions of oil filters for the commercial and OEM markets don't get blindsided by things like this.
 
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
From this posting of yours:

Which demonstrates I did not.


Your exact words, with respect to the Purolator letter:
"As he said, they are always making improvements. Since he doesn't indicate there is an issue, nor that they have found an issue, saying that they made changes that might resolve the issue is not only not supported by the plain text."

Since you think Purolator has not found an issue or says there is an issue, then you accept that there is no issue. If that's not right, then tell me what you think the issue is?

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D

I don't know why you are mounting this crusade, nor what axe you have to grind at Purolator, but you are wasting your time with anyone who can read English and knows anything at all about oil filters.


You obviously can't comprehend my postings, or just don't want to accept what my stance is - which I've made clear, most everyone else participating in these discussions seems to get it. Your English comprehension is poor at best - or your logic filter is totally fried. Your just frustrated because you can't convince me this is "no big deal" and to just stop talking about it. As long as you keep saying it's no big deal, the longer I say it's not. Just in case you didn't notice, you're like the only one here with this 180 spin on the whole issue. Why is that? ... is it because you just like to see how many people you can debate with and try to make them see things in your own perspective? It's a bit bizarre. I see you do this in many threads on this chat board. You always have to razz somebody and get into these kind of debates with them. Well guess what, not even Purolator can put enough water on the fire at this point. Just the way it is ... so you best just sit back and enjoy the show.

And for the record, I have no "crusade" or "axe to grind with Purolator". If I did, I'd be emailing their Rep and talking to them on the phone. Like I've said many times, if this was a Fram, or a Wix, or a Mobil 1, or an Amsoil oil filter line with the same issue, it would get the same attention on this chat board. People who think it's all about a brand name are not very perceptive of what these discussions are all about.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Since you think Purolator has not found an issue, then you accept that there is no issue.

Since I note that life has not been found on other planets, I accept that there is no life on other planets.

Get it?

I though not.
 
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Since you think Purolator has not found an issue, then you accept that there is no issue.

Since I note that life has not been found on other planets, I accept that there is no life on other planets.

Get it?

I though not.


Your way of thinking is in a really small box. Now I do get it, that explains everything.
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
What is the "it" to be fixed? Purolator doesn't appear to know, nor does anyone on BITOG posting on the topic.

If you don't think torn media is an issue, that's fine. I do. With only one or two examples, I didn't think it was an issue. With more examples, I do.

And I have moved on for the interim. There is no anxiety about this. It's just unfortunate that one of my preferred brands has an issue that is, in my estimation, enough to buy something else for the time being. With Bosch/Purolator being turfed from Walmart Canada, my online supplier having raised shipping charges, and this media failure issue, I'll be sticking to my other preferred options for the time being, those being Wix, Hastings, and even the Motorcraft filters (made by Purolator). It's not even a hard decision. I cannot buy them locally, and I'm not going to buy them online and risk getting dated product.

And since Purolator doesn't appear to know - your words - I'll simply wait until I see enough Purolator products cut open with no media tears to satisfy me, and given how long it will take to work the old product out of the slow Canadian system, I suspect it will be in the neighbourhood of one year minimum before I even consider buying another Bosch Premium (North American/Japanese style) or other affected Purolator product.
 
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D

Believe it or not Purolator has engineers and an entire QC team to assess the issue.



Exactly....

It's asinine to think Purolator doesn't sample their production, place the filters on a test bench, and test them to failure (real failure) on a regular basis.

They make filters for a living.

I'll even go a step further.

They know exactly what the problem was, the appoximate build dates for suspect filters, and they have already notified their supplier that there was a issue with a specific batch (or batches) of filter media.

That's why they encouraged the OP to buy recent production.

Purolator also has deciphered the risk to consumers and potential liability the company has for the media tear issue. With 80% of the media intact and multipass filtration in modern engines, that risk is zero.

Companies that build millions of oil filters for the commercial and OEM markets don't get blindsided by things like this.



Very valid assessment, which makes it all the more difficult for them to ignore problems, and to play dumb.

The problem I see is a design flaw or production control problem. Do you expect them to initiate a recall over the matter?

Sure, a filter running in constant bypass may pose little risk. Maybe they should include that on their promotional literature? Or perhaps on their product containers?

I see one alternative to design flaw, which would be a production control flaw. Even if the problem is being exacerbated by accidental cutting of the media during production, the media configuration is improper, pure and simple, whatever the cause. Personally, I have no interest in using a product, or supporting a company, that has demonstrated such a flaw for years.

They have been building filters since 1923? They dont seem very good at it.

I'd love to see evidence that the media was cut before service. Still doesnt address the obvious flaw of the media configuration.

Short a risk of liability for catastrophic engine damage, I foresee this problem will at best be quietly swept under the rug. If within 3-6 months the same design flaw is being found in new production, I'll know all I need to about Purolator's vaunted engineering proficiency, and concern for customers.
 
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