RAM Warranty Visit

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Roanoke Virginia
Yeah, likely depends on training. I only took Auto Mechanics in high school (grade 11 and 12), the rest of my wrenching experience is just hobby stuff, which I've been big into for the last, must be close to 30 years now, as that started when I was a kid.

I do know that OEM's have different policies on part replacement and repairs, I expect some would not accept replacing both hubs if only one was bad for example. I know FCA has become quite a stickler for warranty claims and requires you actually send them the defective part for inspection to get away from dealerships firing the parts cannon at vehicles and charging the OEM unnecessarily for poor troubleshooting.
I totally agree with that on all of it.
 
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Lakeside CA
I guess all dealers are not the same. Saturday morning my battery died (I tested it, would not hold a load) on my 2019 Jeep Cherokee, I called the local dealer, Carl Burger Jeep in La Mesa CA and got a recording to leave a message for the service scheduler and they would return the call, so I did. I assume they are open at least part of the day Saturday, but as of now it is 1130 Monday morning and no call back. Anyway, after an hour of no call back I just bought a new battery figuring it wasn't worth the hassle, since they don't have a great reputation anyways. By 1230 the new battery was installed and all is well...except I am out $175 on something that should have been replaced under warrantee.
 
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Kansas
Yeah, likely depends on training. I only took Auto Mechanics in high school (grade 11 and 12), the rest of my wrenching experience is just hobby stuff, which I've been big into for the last, must be close to 30 years now, as that started when I was a kid.

I do know that OEM's have different policies on part replacement and repairs, I expect some would not accept replacing both hubs if only one was bad for example. I know FCA has become quite a stickler for warranty claims and requires you actually send them the defective part for inspection to get away from dealerships firing the parts cannon at vehicles and charging the OEM unnecessarily for poor troubleshooting.
Wait, FCA actually doing something halfway smart? Shut the front door!
 
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411
Location
CA
It's not a cracked line, the lines carry coolant. It's probably from the gasket that seals the cooler to the block:

The Critic is an incredibly observant mechanic and this is his personal vehicle. Average Joe would never have noticed the slight weep coming from the back of the wheel bearing and likely not the oil leak either unless it was actually dripping on the ground.

Being a new truck pretty much anyone with minimal mechanical background would find that leak and a bad wheel bearing. If it's just the gasket then why is the dealer not replacing it? The only way to tell with certainty is to clean off the effected area, start the motor and see the root cause of the leak. I recommend baby powder before going with the dye. Did the dealer even diagnose exactly where it was coming from?

These kind of issues are unacceptable on a new vehicle. I feel bad for "The Critic". I'm sure he is not happy at all having to deal with this. At this point I would recommend documenting every visit and have the vehicle replaced under the lemon law.

As complex as new vehicles are it‘s common that it may have a few bugs that need sorted. Some have used this as a reason to buy a newer, low mileage vehicle. Nice to hear the dealer is on top of it.

IMO, the dealer is not doing the right thing by sending the vehicle away with a leak and only one hub bearing replacement. Hub bearings are always replaced in pairs when doing a legitimate customer repair. Even with low supply there are plenty of new 5.7 Hemi vehicles on the dealers lot and assembly line to R&R a part in order to fix one that is already on the road.


A Honda dealer replaced just a single rear shock absorber on our 2008 Honda Odyssey years ago when I had it in for a clunk noise. Clunk went away. No issues. Didn't bother me for other years we owned the van.

This replace in pairs thing is for fancy rich folk..

Our Tahoe had one leaking Sachs shock and they replaced the pair under warranty.
 
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As complex as new vehicles are it‘s common that it may have a few bugs that need sorted. Some have used this as a reason to buy a newer, low mileage vehicle. Nice to hear the dealer is on top of it.

Except things like this are basic and have been manufactured for a century now or so. No excuse for such basic items to fail after only 6,700 miles
it's pathetic. Judging from the 5thgenrams.com forums FCA is plagued with issues on these new trucks.
 
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Los Gatos, CA
Let's just say, The Critic has an eye for detail. And then some.
Of course no one is happy with warranty repairs.
But it is part of the game. I cannot name a car company that does not have warranty repairs and recalls.
Our $60K Lexus RX450h is built pretty darn well, but it has had a recall.
 
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2,673
Location
Kentucky
Lots of folks are making a mountain out of a molehill from this. Lemon law over an oil leak and a front hub?

For the record, I've never replaced both hubs when one fails. I see no reason to unless the opposite side has a ton of miles and you feel like being proactive (a good idea, for sure, and why many shops recommend it) or it's showing wear. On a newer truck with low miles, what would justify replacing a perfectly good part? Please tell me how replacing a single hub is illegitimate? And you really expect the dealer to disassemble a new vehicle on their lot (rendering it used) to repair a minor problem? I think you're living on fantasy island.

Crap happens, give them the opportunity to fix it. Little the dealer can do about parts being backordered, they did the right thing by offering a loaner vehicle if the leak becomes more than a nuisance. I suspect most people would NOT have noticed that, unless they park on clean concrete and noticed drips.
 
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3,522
Location
Roanoke Virginia
Lots of folks are making a mountain out of a molehill from this. Lemon law over an oil leak and a front hub?

For the record, I've never replaced both hubs when one fails. I see no reason to unless the opposite side has a ton of miles and you feel like being proactive (a good idea, for sure, and why many shops recommend it) or it's showing wear. On a newer truck with low miles, what would justify replacing a perfectly good part? Please tell me how replacing a single hub is illegitimate? And you really expect the dealer to disassemble a new vehicle on their lot (rendering it used) to repair a minor problem? I think you're living on fantasy island.

Crap happens, give them the opportunity to fix it. Little the dealer can do about parts being backordered, they did the right thing by offering a loaner vehicle if the leak becomes more than a nuisance. I suspect most people would NOT have noticed that, unless they park on clean concrete and noticed drips.
That’s what we are trained to do where I used to work and what I learned in school is if it is in a pair it needs to be replaced in a pair. With 67,000 that’s a big difference between mileage to have two uneven worn hubs in my opinion. And from my experience last time I replaced just one that the customer wanted replaced it wasn’t under warranty she came back a week or so later and the other side had failed so usually they aren’t far behind when one does fail and she was upset we wouldn’t give her a discount for not getting them done together. Same with the ignition coils for Toyota we were trained even if one is bad replace the other 3 or 5 because they need to be replaced together to avoid straining the PCM having one more powerful than the other. But yes anytime someone would come in needing something replaced that was in a pair like a hub, bearing, tire, brake caliper, axle etc it was in pairs. I do it anyway because I follow what I was taught to do.
 
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2,673
Location
Kentucky
That’s what we are trained to do where I used to work and what I learned in school is if it is in a pair it needs to be replaced in a pair. With 67,000 that’s a big difference between mileage to have two uneven worn hubs in my opinion. And from my experience last time I replaced just one that the customer wanted replaced it wasn’t under warranty she came back a week or so later and the other side had failed so usually they aren’t far behind when one does fail and she was upset we wouldn’t give her a discount for not getting them done together. Same with the ignition coils for Toyota we were trained even if one is bad replace the other 3 or 5 because they need to be replaced together to avoid straining the PCM having one more powerful than the other. But yes anytime someone would come in needing something replaced that was in a pair like a hub, bearing, tire, brake caliper, axle etc it was in pairs. I do it anyway because I follow what I was taught to do.

Okay, that's fine that you were trained that way. But please share the physics behind why hubs NEED to be replaced in pairs. Other than upselling and replacing prophylactically (which is what you're trained to do, but I think most would agree is unnecessary at 6700 miles), what is the reason?

Parts are replaced under warranty because they fail. The other side hub has not failed.
 
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3,522
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Roanoke Virginia
Okay, that's fine that you were trained that way. But please share the physics behind why hubs NEED to be replaced in pairs. Other than upselling and replacing prophylactically (which is what you're trained to do, but I think most would agree is unnecessary at 6700 miles), what is the reason?

Parts are replaced under warranty because they fail. The other side hub has not failed.
Well I mean you wouldn’t want a more worn part on one side right? With 6700 miles difference I would be concerned of it failing in the future and then the other may not fail so in that case you are back to square one with having two parts with unequal wear on them instead of just replacing it before and not having to worry about it. And with those having the bearing in them the bearing with more miles on it could go bad then you have to spend more money at that time to replace both so that same thing doesn’t happen again. And most manufacturers recommend things be replaced in pairs anyway for that reason if you read the recommendations for most of them. I can’t give an example of a hub actually failing unless a stud breaks or it gets warped from having been tightened too tight but the bearing that goes in the hub goes bad. But I can give an example of many others like I once replaced a single brake caliper and so the next pad change it had worn down that sides pads faster since it had more pressure applied versus the old side so I replaced both at that point including the new one that I had previously replaced.
 
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Phoenix
Well I mean you wouldn’t want a more worn part on one side right? With 6700 miles difference I would be concerned of it failing in the future and then the other may not fail so in that case you are back to square one with having two parts with unequal wear on them instead of just replacing it before and not having to worry about it. And with those having the bearing in them the bearing with more miles on it could go bad then you have to spend more money at that time to replace both so that same thing doesn’t happen again. And most manufacturers recommend things be replaced in pairs anyway for that reason if you read the recommendations for most of them. I can’t give an example of a hub actually failing unless a stud breaks but the bearing that goes in the hub goes bad. But I can give an example of many others like I once replaced a single brake caliper and so the next pad change it had worn down that sides pads faster since it had more pressure applied versus the old side so I replaced both at that point including the new one that I had previously replaced.

Just because one fails doesn't mean the other will.

I agree with this comment. Anyone who posts this and has a Rodney Dangerfield avatar is my hero.

This replace in pairs thing is for fancy rich folk..
 
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3,522
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Just because one fails doesn't mean the other will.

I agree with this comment. Anyone who posts this and has a Rodney Dangerfield avatar is my hero.
It may not but you don’t want them to have uneven wear or not match. And I don’t want a bearing have uneven wear on something anyway no matter the mileage. It’s not about being rich it can save you money in the long run last time I checked the parts place wouldn’t sell you just a single part if it has another on the other side.
 
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11,013
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Phoenix
It may not but you don’t want them to have uneven wear or not match. And I don’t want a bearing have uneven wear on something anyway no matter the mileage. It’s not about being rich it can save you money in the long run last time I checked the parts place wouldn’t sell you just a single part if it has another on the other side.

Uneven bearing wear isn't going to make one bit of difference in the operation of a vehicle - the other might last the life of the vehicle and the replacement could fail in 20k miles. Brake pads are about the only thing I would replace in pairs, if I picked up a nail that wasn't repairable in a tire I wouldn't even replace those in pairs even if they didn't match. If only one rotor is under spec, it gets one. One strut if only one is leaking.
 
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3,522
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Roanoke Virginia
Uneven bearing wear isn't going to make one bit of difference in the operation of a vehicle - the other might last the life of the vehicle and the replacement could fail in 20k miles. Brake pads are about the only thing I would replace in pairs, if I picked up a nail that wasn't repairable in a tire I wouldn't even replace those in pairs even if they didn't match. If only one rotor is under spec, it gets one. One strut if only one is leaking.
That’s fine that’s your opinion but that’s crazy to me. I would for sure never replace one strut or one rotor. Replacing one strut will make your vehicle set unevenly. And replacing only one rotor is crazy that shortens the life of the pads because one is thicker. I always do things based on what I was trained to do and you know when the manufacturer covers replacing both of them like Toyota does it should be done anyway.
 

The Critic

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That’s fine that’s your opinion but that’s crazy to me. I would for sure never replace one strut or one rotor. Replacing one strut will make your vehicle set unevenly. And replacing only one rotor is crazy that shortens the life of the pads because one is thicker. I always do things based on what I was trained to do and you know when the manufacturer covers replacing both of them like Toyota does it should be done anyway.
Toyota definitely does not cover replacing both sides under warranty. Your dealer must have had an extremely good warranty clerk. Hubs and shocks do not get replaced in pairs under warranty; I've seen countless cars return to the dealer for replacements under warranty and they have never been done in pairs - under 3/36 or under Extra Care.

Hate to say it, but your training was incorrect. The advice to replace in pairs may be applicable in high-mileage examples for customer-pay repairs, but definitely not for warranty.

Also, I referenced the Toyota and FCA service info earlier and neither source states to replace these components in pairs.

Being a new truck pretty much anyone with minimal mechanical background would find that leak and a bad wheel bearing. If it's just the gasket then why is the dealer not replacing it? The only way to tell with certainty is to clean off the effected area, start the motor and see the root cause of the leak. I recommend baby powder before going with the dye. Did the dealer even diagnose exactly where it was coming from?

These kind of issues are unacceptable on a new vehicle. I feel bad for "The Critic". I'm sure he is not happy at all having to deal with this. At this point I would recommend documenting every visit and have the vehicle replaced under the lemon law.



IMO, the dealer is not doing the right thing by sending the vehicle away with a leak and only one hub bearing replacement. Hub bearings are always replaced in pairs when doing a legitimate customer repair. Even with low supply there are plenty of new 5.7 Hemi vehicles on the dealers lot and assembly line to R&R a part in order to fix one that is already on the road.




Our Tahoe had one leaking Sachs shock and they replaced the pair under warranty.
Oddly enough, FCA only sells the gasket and the oil filter adapter/warm assembly together. No joke.
1605592315730.png


Contractually, FCA warranty states that warranty repairs must be performed using new or remanufactured parts. Removing a component from an inventory new vehicle that has not been titled is a serious grey area. I have a friend at a different automaker and they have been warned to avoid this option since the automaker is potentially violating its warranty service agreement.

First time I've ever heard that. On my old Explorer when I had a hub fail, the dealer changed only the one that failed. The other one lasted the life of the vehicle, well north of 200,000 miles.
Perhaps AutoMechanic's mentor got the idea from some outdated practices:

Anyway, the dealer called earlier and the oil filter adapter/warmer arrived earlier than expected. The truck is getting repaired right now.
 
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Phoenix
Contractually, FCA warranty states that warranty repairs must be performed using new or remanufactured parts. Removing a component from an inventory new vehicle that has not been titled is a serious grey area. I have a friend at a different automaker and they have been warned to avoid this option since the automaker is potentially violating its warranty service agreement.

I'd be pretty ticked off if I purchased a new vehicle and discovered it had been cannibalized for parts. We had another thread recently with a brand new Mercedes that had a vibration at highway speeds and posters were suggesting the dealer should swap wheels with another vehicle on the lot. :oops:
 
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3,522
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Roanoke Virginia
Toyota definitely does not cover replacing both sides under warranty. Your dealer must have had an extremely good warranty clerk. Hubs and shocks do not get replaced in pairs under warranty; I've seen countless cars return to the dealer for replacements under warranty and they have never been done in pairs - under 3/36 or under Extra Care.

Hate to say it, but your training was incorrect. The advice to replace in pairs may be applicable in high-mileage examples for customer-pay repairs, but definitely not for warranty.

Also, I referenced the Toyota and FCA service info earlier and neither source states to replace these components in pairs.


Oddly enough, FCA only sells the gasket and the oil filter adapter/warm assembly together. No joke.
View attachment 34276

Contractually, FCA warranty states that warranty repairs must be performed using new or remanufactured parts. Removing a component from an inventory new vehicle that has not been titled is a serious grey area. I have a friend at a different automaker and they have been warned to avoid this option since the automaker is potentially violating its warranty service agreement.
Well if it was incorrect then that’s probably why we went thru several Managers and other management staff. I do agree the taking parts from new stuff on the lot is a grey area and that’s terrible to do. But I just find it strange they tell us at the dealership do it in pairs and told us the same thing in school so that’s why I am wondering. I totally believe everything you said and I appreciate you chiming in. Whenever we would have something like that come in the boss says do both and the parts guy delivered both to the shop for the vehicle I don’t recall the manufacturer or Toyota ever saying anything about it. I know my boss had a certain amount he was allowed for stuff in case we messed up something so possibly he could of covered it with that maybe I guess?
 

The Critic

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Well if it was incorrect then that’s probably why we went thru several Managers and other management staff. I do agree the taking parts from new stuff on the lot is a grey area and that’s terrible to do. But I just find it strange they tell us at the dealership do it in pairs and told us the same thing in school so that’s why I am wondering. I totally believe everything you said and I appreciate you chiming in. Whenever we would have something like that come in the boss says do both and the parts guy delivered both to the shop for the vehicle I don’t recall the manufacturer or Toyota ever saying anything about it. I know my boss had a certain amount he was allowed for stuff in case we messed up something so possibly he could of covered it with that maybe I guess?
Did you ever get to see the final repair order from situations where both were replaced?

I bet someone wrote up the notes as both being sides being noisy, which is obviously fraudulent. I doubt Toyota would have reimbursed for both if the notes said "Found R/F hub/wheel bearing noisy, replaced both L/F and R/F."
 
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Did you ever get to see the final repair order from situations where both were replaced?

I bet someone wrote up the notes as both being sides being noisy, which is obviously fraudulent. I doubt Toyota would have reimbursed for both if the notes said "Found R/F hub/wheel bearing noisy, replaced both L/F and R/F."
No not past what whoever was fixing it wrote. I never seen the final thing that was the shop foreman I believe who was over that. I thought this was normal so I never thought to ask or to look at it really.
 
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