R-12 availability

[Kruse]

I remember the time when R12 was sold for about $.49/can. I also remember when WM had many thousands of cans of R12 with a sign by it saying that a person needed to buy it NOW because after such-and-such a date, it would be illegal for them to sell it. (Don't remember the exact date...early or mid '90s?) I stocked up and still have a bunch.
My brother used to do a bunch of HVAC work and always used a drop in for commercial equipment. I wouldn't recommend it for auto use though.
My vote is to keep your cars on R12 and bite the bullet for the needed equipment to work on it. (My '71 Cougar will never get a retrofit....)

 

[TechnoLoGs]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I have three untouched cans of R-12 I would love to sell. I'd even let it go for $20/can, including shipping. The last opportunity I had to use it was when I needed to replace the compressor in my 89 Accord back in 2010. I shipped my mechanic the brand new Denso compressor from Rock Auto along with the receiver/drier. He told me he could use my R-12 in it, but that would have used up all of the three cans I had. The car used to need about a half can a year every spring from the day it drove off the lot. It even continued after I had the first compressor replaced in 1999 along with the hoses, schraeder valves and drier. I didn't want to hunt for R-12 anymore so I had him use Freeze 12 which is what he recommended since it required no change of the oil in the system and runs at similar pressures to R-12. Performance was about three degrees warmer than the R-12 so it was acceptable (43 degrees at the vent).

Then, I wrecked the car in 2012. So, I have these three nice cans of DuPont brand R-12 that sure could use a good home.


If they do not sell locally, I may approach my mechanic about putting this in the Blazer. Need that to blow nice and cold. Right now, it blows warm...

Can I talk to you in about a month in regards to payment? I am doing the same thing with a bottle of A-Rx. I have the information, just need to submit payment to him, as well.
*Yes, I am asking if I can pay first, just in a month or so, then have it shipped. Same as the A-Rx.

I can absolutely do $60 plus S&H I just read the post, no rush on it, either

 

[GMBoy]

You can buy it on eBay too - in cans without license. Just have to state that you are buying it for resale

 

[DBMaster]

Sold! No longer available.

Thanks!

 

[TFB1]

If it needs a slight bump I'd hit it, if the tap leaks over time, oh well...

Evacuating a 30lb cylinder is a good idea, those won't generally leak down..

 

[artificialist]

I see it at garage sales and flea markets. I don't know anyone that still has a professional machine that weighs and charges the refrigerant, unfortunately. You would have to use those DIY adapters that are never as good as using a special refrigerant machine.

 

[DBMaster]

I don't know, guys. I have an old, inexpensive charge kit with an inline gauge. I have been using it for thirty years for both R-12 and R-22 (home unit). Even when using the full manifold gauge set to evacuate and leak check I still used my simple gauge kit to charge the system. I would charge until a minimum pressure was achieved and then continue until a thermometer in the center vent reached its low point. That method never let me down.

 

[Cujet]

I still have some.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
I still have some.


It's not really a matter of if any person has it, rather if the distributors are keeping it in inventory, and if AC shops are keeping it with the right equipment, in their shops. Most aren't.

 

[wtd]

I have a 50lb tank of R12 that is still mostly full. One of my 92 Cavaliers still uses R12 and it is what I used when I repaired the system a few years ago. I will use R12 when I eventually repair the system on my 1970 Monte Carlo.

I have a set of R12 gauges and repairing the systems that use R12 is no harder than fixing an R134a system.

Wayne

 

[TFB1]

I don't understand the hand wringing, if I had a running vehicle with a R-12 system(mine has it's engine on a stand) and had some cans of R-12 on hand, I'd throw a 1/2 can at it and see what happens... And that's gauges or no gauges...

When I last checked mine back in April it was fine(I rebuilt that system in '02), if it needs a little bump when running again, I'll hit it...

 

[JHZR2]

The problem is finding a shop that has R-12, not topping it up with NOS that someone has at home or anything else. My basic question was if it is available at distributors and if shops are stocking it.

Very, very few shops around here are stocking it, and those that do are just sitting on their old bottle and not buying more.

Auto parts stores around here arent offering it.

My FIL does business with a refrigeration distributor in FL, and so we called; since I have 609, I can buy it. Well, the prices have gone up! Wholesale pricing was $1000, retail $1400 for 30lb. For a while the price had dropped and it was more like $25/lb. Looks like it is goijng back up mainly because LACK of demand makes it a more specialty item, and so stocking it is more expensive and fewer people are (though lots on ebay/CL).

I may do a retrofit to 134a, and then after it diffuses out (my system does not leak, but I dont follow the MB recommendation of running AC once a month, because I dont always drive the cars), Ill put in a propane/isobutane mix... WHich is OK to do in place of 134a (but not 12). Just thinking out loud, may not do that...

 

[DBMaster]

Actually, the propane/butane blend CAN be used in place of R-12. Aside from the fact that there are some pre-blended cans out there (Envirosafe, for example) one of the more creative guys on my old Honda Accord forum used his own blend (BBQ propane and butane for refilling lighters) in a 3rd generation Accord (1986-1989) successfully. This blend will also carry the original oil through the system.

 

[Jarlaxle]

The propane-butane mix (in addition to being incredibly dangerous!) is NOT legal.

Anyone using it should be thrown in jail for a VERY long time. Either fix it right, or open the windows and deal with it!

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
The propane-butane mix (in addition to being incredibly dangerous!) is NOT legal.

Anyone using it should be thrown in jail for a VERY long time. Either fix it right, or open the windows and deal with it!


Dont start that here. It has been argued, and proven irrelevant so many times in so many forums that its not worth it to do it yet again.

If one converted to R-134a and then utilized HCs, it is perfectly legal in states where it is not banned (not banned at the federal level). The only legality is in mixing it with R-12 as an alternative R-12, because of SNAP. Totally fine in a 134a or a retrofitted 134a system.

There are reasons to not be for blends, but they are more engineering concerns (e.g. that the blend will diffuse at different rates and thus change composition over time) than what less than a pound of propane/butane will notionally do if released and possibly hit LFL.

This should be abut R-12, which Im trying to keep my systems with IF I can actually find a shop that will handle it/distributors willing to stock it for a reasonable price.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I have seen notices (on EPA letterhead) that EXPLICITLY stated that using HC-12 is not legal.

Maybe it really is time to require all A/C systems be sealed, and make tampering with the seal a felony...

 

[JHZR2]

Yes, not legal for use in mixtures with R-12. I dont deny that.

But EPA is hands off on HC refrigerants, and has no stance on applications that are R134a or other refrigerants.

 

[Bgallagher]

Originally Posted By: bmod305
We haven't been able to get any R12 for at least 6+ years for our store group. All the shops around us no longer have any R12 or equipment to deal with it. Convert to R134a or roll the windows down.

Dave


+1 It stinks because the R12 was ice cold but your options as far as I know don't exist.