Questions about DEX VI and Valvoline MaxLife

[Pontiaclover]

This is my first post. I am sorry if what I need info on has been covered already. I was up until 5am last night going over this section trying to find answers and I think I confused myself.
First off, I have a Pontiac Grand Prix GTP with a 4T65E-HD transmission. It currently has 123,300 miles on it. I have changed the fluid twice since I owned the car(48,500 when I bought it). I know the woman that owned it before me had it serviced at the dealership. I checked the VIN(dealership) and the car had the internal wiring harness and TCC valve changed at about 25K. Ichanged the fluid at about 65K and at about 100K. I used Max Life(DEX III/Mercon) the last time I changed it.
The trans has developed some shifting issues such as hard shifting, long shifts, and eratic shifts. I checked the fluid and it was very burnt and smelled absolutely awful. It also had some bubbles on the dipstick. The last time I changed the motor oil about 2 months ago it(the trans fluid) did not look like this. I usually check it when I change the motor oil because the transmission does not leak and IMO does not need to be checked more often.
I need to drop the pan and do a fluid and filter change on the transmission. I am worried about what I am going to find in the pan and filter to tell you the truth. I have been considering going with the DEX VI but I was worried about it being synthetic and the trans having high miles. Somebody correct me if I am wrong but in my reading last night I seemed to come away with the Max Life being a synthetic as well. If that is the case, the switch would not be that big of a shock to the trans. So, is the DEX VI a full synthetic? Is the Valvoline Max Life a full synthetic? If anybody can give me some advice on this I would really appreciate it. I really dont want to have to change the transmission. I can do it myself, but I work alot and it is hard to find the time.
Sorry if this has been asked before. I assure you I did not just get on here and start this topic and not do any homework.
Thanks and any help will be much appreciated.
Hub

 

[benjamming]

First,

! It's also good to hear that you tried searching for answers to your questions first.

Did you drop the pan & change the filters the previous two times? If so, what did the filter look like? Does it have any external cooling or filtering added?
What is the car's duty cycle (city vs. highway, towing, drive it like you stole it, etc.)? Do the shifting issues occur with cold & hot fluid alike?
Have you ever done a UOA (used oil analysis) on the ATF?

Dexron VI is definitely an improvement over the old Dexron III approved fluids.

Auto-RX may also prove to be useful.

 

[Pontiaclover]

The two times I have changed the fluid I dropped the pan and changed the filters both times. There was a light amount of clutch material on the magnet both times and a little coating on the surface of the interior of the pan. There were not chunks or metal pieces in the pan. I do not have an external cooler or external filter.
The duty cycle is mostly city driving probably 80/20. I dont drive it like I stole it, but I do like to run the car, it is a Supercharged motor so it will go. I dont do burnouts or neutral drops or any crazy stuff like that. I dont think it should hurt it to run it up to 90-100 on the interstate every now and then to clean it out. The shifting is OK when cold, still kinda sketchy, and gets progressively worse as it gets warm. I have never had any UAO done on the transmission fluid.
Thanks for the help

 

[Johnny]

I would use the new DEX VI and I would do fluid changes every 20-25K.

 

[BearZDefect]

Pontiaclover, the symptoms you have given could mean that fluid pressure is insufficient under some conditions. If that is the case, one cause could be leaking internal seals. If so, try something to help restore the function of those seals. I'll let others make more specific suggestions.

I didn't notice the model year. For people who know this transmission, knowing the model year might help their diagnosis.

 

[Ken2]

Drain and refill the transmission maybe twice, then do the Auto-Rx cleaning according to the directions. Auto-Rx will safely, gently, clean the transmission and recondition the seals. Of course if the seals are worn or damaged, or other parts are significantly worn, it isn't a rebuild-in-a-bottle. I've used Auto-Rx in transmissions, engines, and power steering with very good results.

Dexron-VI has a spec that requires at least a syn blend with Group II base oils. It has other differences as well.

Install a drain plug in your transmission pan and a Magnefine or SPXFiltran in-line transmission filter in the cooler line. Make life easier for yourself.

 

[Pontiaclover]

My car is a 98 model 2 door coupe, so she is 10 years old now.
I decided to go to the dealership close to where I live to talk to a few mechanics that I know. My cousin worked at the parts counter for 6 years, so I was in there quite a bit getting parts using the "family" discount. In that time I got to know some of the mechanics. I talked to the transmission guy for awhile about my situation. He used the tech 2 to check for codes or stored codes and there were none. He checked the fluid and seemed to not think it was as bad as what I thought it was. He said it was oxidized a little, but not as bad as some he has seen.
I know what people say about the dealerships and such, but I think the guy taking his time out to help me like that was cool. Anyway, he went on to tell me about the flush using the BG cleaner for a day, then doing the flush with DEX VI and adding the BG conditioner. I know the BG stuff is pretty good, I have used several of thier products. He told me that there is no way a flush would cause a trans to go bad unless it was on its way out already. He said there have been a few people do the flush on a trans that had codes and very burnt fluid and then went out shortly after.
I have been considering doing this as I dont think this guy would just be doing this for more business. But I have read several posts about people not having satisfactory results. The one thing I dont like about this is not pulling the pan and changing the filter to see what is in there. I considered getting this done and then shortly after doing a pan drop and filter change.
I just keep getting more confused on what to do. I know the trans is not right and I dont think anything is going to fix it other than a rebuild or to get a low mile used trans. But that will require me to do alot of work. I have no doubt that my Dad and I could change the trans, but we both work alot and it is hard to find the time. I appreciate all the help I have received on this forum and this is a great site for alot of information.

 

[sciphi]

Auto-RX for 1000 miles, then switch to Dex-VI.

I have a LeSabre with the non-HD 4T65. The ARX cleared up the rough shifts nicely.

 

[The Critic]

I would pull the pan and change the filter again to make sure that a restricted filter isn't the cause of your problems.

Afterwards, do a transmission flush with Dexron-VI. Skip the additives.

 

[onion]

If that was my car, I'd drop the pan and have a look... then decide what to do from there.

But if the shifting is as erratic as you describe, progressively worsening as trans. temp. goes up... and the fluid is dark and smelly... then one can only reasonably conclude that the transmission is on its way out. In which case your choice is to either fix it or trade the car off.

We had an old company pickup at the John Deere dealership where I worked that had similar symptoms... wouldn't shift properly when warmed up- likely a problem with pump pressure. I dropped the pan, changed the filter, and re-filled with 15w40 motor oil. It shifted fine thereafter... still running two years later. I'm not advocating this as a permanent fix... but it might get you by long enough to trade the car off.

 

[Pontiaclover]

I do not want to get rid of this car. That is out of the question. I am going to drive it until the wheels fall off.
I hooked up my Autotap tonight to check some things and there it was: P1811 Max adapt and Long shift
I have the GM service manual for my year car and it has a good bit of info on this paticular code. To sum it up, the shift time is exceeding the set shift time perameter. On which shift I am not sure. The PCM disables shift adapt time and will max out line pressure. It seems that this would cause the car to shift hard with the maxed out line pressure. But that is not the case. The shifts are not hard and seem pretty normal on normal take offs. I am not going to hit it right now to see what it does as far as a wide open throttle shift.
My thoughts are that the pressure control solenoid may be clogged or malfunctioning. This would explain why the trans is not shifting hard. Or the clutch packs are toast and will not catch to transfer the hard shift.
I did not want to have to rebuild or get a used trans. As a last ditch effort I am going to drop the pan and change the filter and fluid, and then clear the code to see what happens. Maybe the filter is clogged and the fluid is not flowing. If nothing else, it may last until the weather warms up so I can fix it.

 

[WishIhadatruck]

I'd drop the pan and see what it looks like. If you don't see anything scary and it looks pretty normal (like it looked in previous pan drops) then just replace the filter and refill it up with new fluid. If you want to use Auto-Rx I'd put some in then. If you don't want to use the Auto-Rx I'd flush it out with Dex VI. I have Dex VI in both my cars with good success. Good luck.

 

[PineMountain]

Pontiaclover- head on over to ClubGP.com. There was a discussion today about this exact same issue (unless that was you...).
Bottom line- things don't sound too good for your transmission.
Long adapts may be a sticky pcs, but coupled with clutch material in the fluid (dark, "burnt")expect the worst. Your shifts are softer because the clutches are slipping badly. I'll bet the shift feel changes as the transmission warms up, too.
Driving too long with max adapts/pressures will grenade hard parts, leaving you stranded.
HTH

 

[Pontiaclover]

Yeah, I am on ClubGP alot, there are a couple threads with the P1811 trouble code, so it probably was me. I am on the hunt for a good low mile used trans around where I live at. I dont have the (special) tools or time to rebuild or money to waste guessing at which solenoid is bad or hard part. I would like to do a rebuild and add a few upgraded parts to the trans, just dont have the time like I mentioned. There are several things I would like to do while it is out anyway, like installing a new oil pan gasket, motor mounts, and front sway bar. As soon as I get the chance I am going to do the pan drop and change the filter so I can see what is in the pan. It sucks I have to do it outside because my Dads two car garage is completely full because of our 67 GTO frame off restoration project.
I just dont understand why the shifts aren't hard because of the maxed out line pressure. But you are right, the more the trans warms up, the worse the shifts get.
Thanks
Hub

 

[bobfather99]

Originally Posted By: Pontiaclover
He told me that there is no way a flush would cause a trans to go bad unless it was on its way out already.

Im sure many have had trans problems, checked their trans fluid, found it to be brown, and did a panic flush.
When the trans finally [censored] out, they blame the flush/chemicals/mechanic/fluid manufacturer, not the fact the trans wasnt maintained(fluid changes, filter changes)