Question to the group as consumers.

[SC Maintenance]

Most just buy a new supply some send the whole thing back, a small % open a warranty claim although we've got live pros answering the phone empowered to take car of them.

When you say oversize - what do you oversize?
The power over the products baseline consumption?
The MTBF of the entire unit at 100% power?

Oversize by how much ?

Does it make sense to sell a 100K hour power supply with a product carrying a 5 year (50K hour) warranty?

Curious how you do it.

As I said, different use case because cost of failure greatly outweighs the cost of the entire product if it shuts something down.

For basic instrumentation and controls - which I think would be closest to what your asking about, we tend to size the supply at roughly 150 - 200% more than the calculated load because power supplies tend to operate most efficiently at half load and hence produce the least amount of heat at that point - ie longer life.

Most of our devices are 24VDC +/- 20% so voltage isn't much of a concern but not enough current can cause a lot of problems. So if I need one Amp I am wanting a 1.5 or 2.0A of supply. We try to get our stuff on its own supply but sometime not possible - panel space can be a real premium.

Power quality on the AC side generally isn't an issue for whatever reason. I guess a simple analog supply with a not all that sensitive device on the other side doesn't cause many issues?

MTBF, or B10 if the manufacturer will give it tend to be >100,000 hours anyways - which is way longer than any of us care. Unless its going to be somewhere in a panel that is really hot - but they make supplies with higher temp ratings for much higher $ and we try to use those when we need to.

So back to your wall wart - is there a lot of quality variability with wall wart suppliers? Can you even get a quality wall wart now - or do they all come from somewhere in China at the cheapest possible price?

 

[JHZR2]

A properly sized power supply should last more than 5 years.

Paying $60 for a part for something that’s $1500 doesn’t sound like a big deal to me either way.

Agree.

OP, not sure your question makes sense. In fact, if we’re reasonably sure that all but the power supply will last, then what’s the concern? Obsolescence?

If that was a big enough concern, I might even buy a spare PS for peace of mind.

Seems much ado about nothing. What are we missing?

 

[JHZR2]

If you by a product with a 5 year warranty, does it kill your faith in the company if an external wall wart style power supply dies before the warranty is up - as long as the part gets replaced with no hassle?

What is your expectation of a modern electronic product that you put in service and run 24x7 as to how long it should last after the warranty expires?

Yes. A wall wart, as KISS device as it is, is still an integral part. Sure I’d probably chalk it up to Chinese junk, but it’s still poor engineering design to have something that fails. Especially if that type of device where power quality is important.

 

[eljefino]

Hmm, I'm running a gigabit network switch off an undersized wall wart as we speak... It's been doing fine for years, knock on wood. In a cooler basement.

 

[UncleDave]

Agree.

OP, not sure your question makes sense. In fact, if we’re reasonably sure that all but the power supply will last, then what’s the concern? Obsolescence?

If that was a big enough concern, I might even buy a spare PS for peace of mind.

Seems much ado about nothing. What are we missing?

Im not sure Id call it concern so much as curiosity how you guy would see it if you had one die.

I'd buy a spare PS.

To me it's no big deal, to most its no big deal, but apparently to some people - it's almost as if the world itself were ending.

 

[UncleDave]

As I said, different use case because cost of failure greatly outweighs the cost of the entire product if it shuts something down.

For basic instrumentation and controls - which I think would be closest to what your asking about, we tend to size the supply at roughly 150 - 200% more than the calculated load because power supplies tend to operate most efficiently at half load and hence produce the least amount of heat at that point - ie longer life.

Most of our devices are 24VDC +/- 20% so voltage isn't much of a concern but not enough current can cause a lot of problems. So if I need one Amp I am wanting a 1.5 or 2.0A of supply. We try to get our stuff on its own supply but sometime not possible - panel space can be a real premium.

Power quality on the AC side generally isn't an issue for whatever reason. I guess a simple analog supply with a not all that sensitive device on the other side doesn't cause many issues?

MTBF, or B10 if the manufacturer will give it tend to be >100,000 hours anyways - which is way longer than any of us care. Unless its going to be somewhere in a panel that is really hot - but they make supplies with higher temp ratings for much higher $ and we try to use those when we need to.
So back to your wall wart - is there a lot of quality variability with wall wart suppliers? Can you even get a quality wall wart now - or do they all come from somewhere in China at the cheapest possible price?

Almost everything relatively inexpensive is Chinese - Im my case the company we source from is Japanese and they manufacture in China.

If a customer is in a mission critical situation they should probably have at least one spare power supply, and or be running a rack mount converter with built in redundant PS's.

 

[spackard]

For $1495, is in a metal enclosure, aimed at pro/industrial market, I’d expect a power supply to last 5 years. Can’t you mate it with an Apple-quality power supply? Or, make it use a USB-C supply so they can source another one locally in an emergency rather then a proprietary supply?

If it came in a plastic enclosure, I’d expect the power supply to also be cheap.

 

[UncleDave]

For $1495, is in a metal enclosure, aimed at pro/industrial market, I’d expect a power supply to last 5 years. Can’t you mate it with an Apple-quality power supply? Or, make it use a USB-C supply so they can source another one locally in an emergency rather then a proprietary supply?

If it came in a plastic enclosure, I’d expect the power supply to also be cheap.

Product is in a metal enclosure.

The supply is in no way proprietary.

My industry likes locking connectors so the only thing that might be considered to be non standard is the connector, but you can still find them everywhere. If you needed to you could de-re -solder one in 2 minutes or so.

TV and production people will trip, or snag something - anything on a painted line.

 

[spackard]

Okay just look at usb-c locking connector. Cable has a captive male screw on it. Or two screws. But it looks like a regular usb-c cable could be used in an emergency.

 

[UncleDave]

Okay just look at usb-c locking connector. Cable has a captive male screw on it. Or two screws. But it looks like a regular usb-c cable could be used in an emergency.

Never seen one of those that didn't need a tool (usually some screwdriver) to put on and remove.

Then W USB-c you have the whole question of which USB cable for what power and customers will always mess that up.

 

[Carmudgeon]

If you by a product with a 5 year warranty, does it kill your faith in the company if an external wall wart style power supply dies before the warranty is up - as long as the part gets replaced with no hassle?

What is your expectation of a modern electronic product that you put in service and run 24x7 as to how long it should last after the warranty expires?

Context is important. Who is the target market, and the type of customer being served?

A typical consumer is probably going to toss a $100 gizmo and buy a replacement if the wall adapter goes bad. Less likely to make any attempt to diagnose, be aware of, or attempt to pursue procuring a replacement adapter, even if it's non-proprietary, and readily available though an electronics supplier, or even Amazon.

A $1000 video converter is a specialized tool, used in professional applications, in more demanding conditions by demanding users. That's already reflected in the price, and 5-year warranty term.

Such a market is less likely to be price sensitive, so the higher cost of providing a higher capacity adapter would be more easily digested if the price was raised, but still competitive.

But, barring that, if the adapter fulfills the five-year term, then no issues procuring a replacement. If you really wanted to endear yourselves to customers, and try to garner their loyalty, you'd eat the cost of sending them replacements, for free, within reason.

The typical Harbor Freight customer is going to have different expectations than the typical Snap-on customer, and receive service commensurate to each of them. Or, at least one should hope so.

 

[OVERKILL]

Cisco standard warranty on their downmarket stuff is 1 year but you add smartNET and you can get coverage for much, MUCH longer. I've only ever had one Cisco PSU die, and it was a hot swappable one in a $7,000 switch after close to 10 years. I've got standalone AC adapters for Cisco gear that are MUCH older than that.

So, my expectations may be a bit higher than "Average Joe" here, as network gear is generally my benchmark for this price point and if I bought something that I'm seeing examples where the PSU packs it in at ~5 years, I'm probably looking at a competitor product.

It's somewhat expected for a $80-120 BestBuy special (had a number of ASUS ones that were plagued by cheap wall wart failure) but you cross the $1,000 mark and the expectations change IMHO.