question for Mola

[GregH]

Mola, as an aside to my previous question to the forum about my wife's new Camry requiring 5-20 oil. I am interested in SX-up but want to be careful about cat poisoning. What oil would you recommend along with what dose of SX-up. Nothing like putting someone on the spot is there? This is a new question not thought of when the original post was sent. Please be patient all!

Thanks in advance
GregH

 

[dkryan]

GregH,

I believe Mola's on holiday until July 5th, so I'm sure he'll appreciate your patience, as well!

 

[buster]

I'll speak for myself, but I would use it in an oil with a low NOAK number, or an oil that doesn't evaporate all that much.

 

[jonny-b]

Hello Greg.
If I were you, I would considder using Auto_Rx together with the dino-oil you choose. Honda(motorcycle-division) have been doing some testing with it and found it to perform very well. It is also used in racing-cars, were they have found it to perform extremely well. They also found that it gave a few horsepower. Take a look at www.auto-rx.com Good luck and happy motoring.

 

[GregH]

Thnaks guys, the Auto-rx may be the way to go. I had thought of the SX to help the APPARENT weak adds in most GF-4 oils but of course don't want to create a cat killing combo.
Thanks
Again
GregH

 

[GregH]

Ray, my use of the word "apparent" was meant I suppose, to infer that perhaps in some cases what we don't see in an oil is as important as what we do see in terms of wear protections. Some oils look puny in the adds department but still show good wear numbers. Although a healthy add pack brings confidence to most of us. Right?
GregH

 

[Ray H]

Given that the testing for SM qualification is more stringent for flat tappet cam wear than was done for SL qualification, I'll proceed with SM in my engines without ever looking back. If y'all feel qualified to second guess the professional tribologists, hey, do whatever floats your boat.

 

[boxcartommie22]

that is what they want you to believe in fact sm oils are horrible and show increasing number of cam/lifter premature wear...time will tell

 

[Ray H]

"APPARENT weak adds" in GF-4? (Wow - has anyone contacted the blenders with this startling news flash?

)

 

[jsharp]

You haven't been listening to all the cam grinders and "high performance" engine builders have you Ray?

 

[ShotGun429]

We do alot of Muscle Car engines here at the Speed Shop here,and Dyno them before Shipping, We do run about 110-to 120 pounds of seat pressure on the valve springs,(compared to 80-90 pounds the factory issued valve springd were at)but still not excessive at all.on the flat tappets. and I learned the hard way. SM (or to a lesser degree SL oils) Will damage at least one lobe and lifter before getting it off the Dyno. I agree with the earlier poster that SM is a cam killer. Gregg/Ohio

 

[wlkjr1951]

Maybe it's a conspiricy to kill our engines therefore boosting slow automotive sales. They really don't want them to last forever.

 

[jsharp]

ShotGun, what SM oils were you using and what weights?

The reason I ask is this - There are tons of similar reports from cam grinders and engine builders and many recommendations not to use SM, and even SL oils in flat tappet engines.

At the same time, what Ray stated was correct. The SM qualification is tougher vs. the older oils as far as allowable tappet wear. And, API claims the newer oils can be used without problem anywhere an older spec was called out.

So, how do we reconcile this? Anybody? Come on guys, I've been trying to get real ideas about this for a while...

And we've really only got 3 choices -

The API is "fibbing."

The cam grinders and engine builders don't have that much of a handle on lubrication.

The API tests are far removed from real world application of flat tappet cams and are unrealistic.

 

[Gary Allan]

Check the tests yourself and see which endured the most insult in operating conditions.

 

[boxcartommie22]

i guess i don't believe anything the gov says neither the api...i guess we are so used to being screwed...one has to do their homework and the api follows what the gov. reg says..get the picture? who cares what is best for us surly not them

 

[bruce381]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jsharp:
ShotGun, what SM oils were you using and what weights?

The reason I ask is this - There are tons of similar reports from cam grinders and engine builders and many recommendations not to use SM, and even SL oils in flat tappet engines.

At the same time, what Ray stated was correct. The SM qualification is tougher vs. the older oils as far as allowable tappet wear. And, API claims the newer oils can be used without problem anywhere an older spec was called out.

So, how do we reconcile this? Anybody? Come on guys, I've been trying to get real ideas about this for a while...

And we've really only got 3 choices -

The API is "fibbing."

The cam grinders and engine builders don't have that much of a handle on lubrication.

The API tests are far removed from real world application of flat tappet cams and are unrealistic.

---

HP cams I think run with higher spring pressure and loads which are higher than API tests
So API test is "weaker" than what a HP aftermarket cam will see.
apples and oranges thing.
bruce

 

[jsharp]

Thanks guys. It makes more sense now and explains how both API and the aftermarket guys can be correct in their narrow worlds. It really is a different set of circumstances for each group.

I'm sort of surprised at the engine the API used to do the cam wear tests and the oil temps they run but I suppose it's as good as any.

It also seems like the aftermarket guys have more to worry about than just going back a couple ratings in oil and hoping it's OK. I guess they've settled on just looking for lots of ZDDP as a "solution" to their problems.

 

[Terry]

There are oils that meet API spec and using cutting edge chemistries show pretty well even in cam thumping engines.

For example Pennzoil Platinum, QuakerState Advanced are two that show well as SM oils.

 

[mechtech]

Shotgun - Cams require break in, and a dyno test before that occurs is what is wearing them prematurely.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

---

Originally posted by GregH:
Mola, as an aside to my previous question to the forum about my wife's new Camry requiring 5-20 oil.

---

What engine is in your wife's Camry? Virtually every new engine made today has a rollerized valvetrain. Thus SM/GF-4 oils shouldn't be a concern. Aftermarket built flat-tappet pushrod pig-iron engines with high-lift cams and extreme valve spring pressures is an entirely different animal.