PYB 5W-30, 5K miles, Toyota Tacoma

[ClarkB]

First UOA on my Tacoma. This is an '00 model with the 2.7L (3RZ-FE) engine, 133,000 miles on the ticker. I took this sample back in January and finally got around to sending it in. As I recall, a good chunk of the miles were highway, the rest would be slower dirt roads. The PYB is the previous "generation", the older formulation or whatever.

ALUMINUM 1
CHROMIUM 0
IRON 3
COPPER 2
LEAD 1
TIN 0
MOLYBDENUM 1
NICKEL 0
SILVER 0
TITANIUM 0
POTASSIUM 0
BORON 1
SILICON 8
SODIUM 30
CALCIUM 1031
MAGNESIUM 7
PHOSPHORUS 102
ZINC 681
BARIUM 0

SUS Viscosity @ 210°F 53.7
cSt Viscosity @ 100°C 8.38
Flashpoint in °F 420
Fuel % Antifreeze % ??
Water % 0
Insolubles % .3

Blackstone's comments: Universal averages for the Toyota 2.7L are based on an oil run of 5,700 miles. This oil wasn't run quite that long but we think it could have gone the distance. Based on what we found here, we think 7,000 miles should be used for your next oil change interval. The only odd find in the sample was sodium. It's likely an additive from oil used in the past, rather than showing the beginning of a coolant leak but we'll be sure to keep an eye on it next time. All else looks good. The viscosity was a bit low, but we doubt it's an issue. Check back to establish trends.

The problem with the "additive from the past" is that I used PYB in the previous OC and I didn't put any sort of additive to the oil or fuel. Of course, maybe 30 ppm of sodium is nothing to be concerned with? Thoughts?

Clark

 

[Johnny]

Well, as for as I know they do not use sodium in PYB, and the calcium and phosphorus numbers are not correct for PYB. Not quite sure what to make of that, but those are not good numbers for PYB. Phosphorus should be around 750-800 and calcium should be around 2100-2400.

 

[bepperb]

Phos is definitely wrong for any oil.

Seems thin. Engine looks good, though. Sodium is in Valvoline and I'm sure others. I doubt it's a coolant leak, though a peek under the cap probably isn't a bad idea.

 

[addyguy]

If you're SURE that is PYB you used, the number are WAY off.

'Older' PYB used a fair amount of moly, recent PYB uses a good hit of boron in it, and well as SM levels of ZN and Ph.

I'd have the lab re-run the numbers...Blackstone is usually good about doing that.

 

[Sayjac]

Agree with others, add pack looks very weak for PYB. Sodium at that number not likely a coolant leak, but Valvoline Na number is higher.

Just doesn't seem right at all. If you sent PYB, makes me wonder if it's a mix up Blackstone.

 

[dsmith41]

102 ppm phosphorus is not accurate. Blackstone did this to me a few months ago. I got numbers that just couldn't be correct and I let them know about it. They said the machine was out of calibration. They re-ran it for me and gave me a free UOA on my next sample if I remember correctly. I need to call them about that when I am ready for another.

You would think one of their techs would see screwy numbers like this and realize something is wrong.

 

[Patman]

The wear numbers look good but whenever I see a conventional 5w30 UOA and see how it's thinned out to a 5w20, I think that it would just be best if 5w20 was used in the first place! Then you also get the benefits of a lower viscosity on initial start up.

 

[Kristin Huff]

Indeed, that phosphorus number IS wrong. It looks like we had a block in the phosphorus line on one of our spectrometers on the 15th, which affected David's report as well as a few others. I apologize to David and anyone else this affected, and of course those samples are no charge.

Yes, you WOULD think one of the techs would have caught it when it happened. All I can say is, at least we admit it when we're wrong!

Yours with a red face,

Kristin Huff
Blackstone Labs

 

[Johnny]

Thanks Kristin for your post. Much appreciated.

 

[Jim Allen]

Very nice to see a public apology and good to see you on the board with us, Kristin.

To the OP: That's a good report looking at the wear metals and low insolubles. The drop into 20 grade is typical of almost all 5W30 mineral oils. Agree with Blackstone: Probably could have gone to 7.5K on that load. Next time, get the TBN done, as that's a very good indicator of how much life is left in the oil and a good way to gauge your OCI.

 

[ClarkB]

I was going to post that a nice lady from Blackstone gave me a call this morning to report that...never mind! Thanks for the call Kristin, I appreciate it.

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
To the OP: That's a good report looking at the wear metals and low insolubles. The drop into 20 grade is typical of almost all 5W30 mineral oils. Agree with Blackstone: Probably could have gone to 7.5K on that load. Next time, get the TBN done, as that's a very good indicator of how much life is left in the oil and a good way to gauge your OCI.


I'm still left scratching my head on this one. With the exception of sodium, phosphorus and magnesium all other elemental readings are near universal averages on my original report. Can I assume that those three elements were the only ones affected by Blackstone's ill-functioning spectrometer?

I don't plan on sticking with the PYB. I prefer to go to PP and stretch it out to a 10K mile OCI. Saves me time and money not to mention that it becomes very easy to remember when the oil needs to be changed. For that reason I didn't pay for the TBN reading. Based on all the previous UOA's on PP showing excellent TBN retention over 10K miles I probably won't pay for it then either.

Clark

 

[Jim Allen]

Can't speak for Blackstone over any inaccuracies on the report but I think you've deduced the likely scenario on those three items.

To me, the TBN is a vital part of the equation, especially when stretching the interval. I would not necessarily translate somebody else's TBN report to your situation because there are vehicle and operational variations that can deplete the oil more quickly, or more slowly. But... once you are established in a pattern, and that pattern doesn't change much, IMO, you can let that go. In fact, my vehicles are so regular now, that I only do UOAs periodically under normal circumstances just to keep them honest.

I'm not totally convinced you can tell much about engine condition with UOAs unless you are sampling way more often than every 5-7K miles and so many months or years. If an internal problem is manifesting, it's pure luck to catch it with a UOA done at the OC. Engine failures will manifest fairly quickly, usually while you are in your Tux on the way to receive the Man-o-the-Year Award
( : < ).

All that said, I admit to picking nits, as is the BITOG norm. You look at enough UOAs and you can pretty much count on being able to go the max interval unless you have some special or difficult operational circumstances. I prefer to know, however, and I'm interested. Oil is fun!

 

[Gene K]

After seeing the wear metals Im not sure you shouldnt have invested in the TBN. Wouldnt it be something if you could do 10,000 on the PYB?

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: Kristin Huff
Indeed, that phosphorus number IS wrong. It looks like we had a block in the phosphorus line on one of our spectrometers on the 15th, which affected David's report as well as a few others. I apologize to David and anyone else this affected, and of course those samples are no charge.

Yes, you WOULD think one of the techs would have caught it when it happened. All I can say is, at least we admit it when we're wrong!

Yours with a red face,

Kristin Huff


Blackstone Labs

Your honesty means a lot!

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: buster

Your honesty means a lot!
+1