Probable cause for a traffic stop.

[Alfred_B]

This is a PSA for those who like to put things in or on their cars. On July 16, 2015 the Fifth Circuit US Court of Appeals ruled that it is suspicious for a vehicle to have air fresheners, rosaries, or pro-police bumper stickers. This is a decision where a cop pulled over a car because of a DARE bumper sticker and a rosarie on the rear view mirror. After the vehicle was searched, no drugs were found but the cops confiscated the $607,000 in cash that the passenger had.

[...]We do have concerns that classifying pro-law enforcement and anti-drug stickers or certain religious imagery as indicators of criminal activity risks putting drivers in a classic ‘heads I win, tails you lose’ position. But we need not decide whether these items alone, or in combination with one another, amount to reasonable suspicion because we find the more suspicious evidence to be the array of air fresheners and inconsistencies in the driver’s responses to the officer’s basic questions. We have long recognized that the presence of air fresheners, let alone four of them placed throughout an SUV, suggests a desire to mask the odor of contraband.[...]

So, if you have an air freshener hanging from your rear view mirror, you are a suspect.

More details are available here: http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2015/us-freshener.pdf

 

[Virtus_Probi]

I find the whole idea that carrying large amounts of cash is, in itself, more or less a crime now to be troubling. Seems like an easy way for law enforcement to increase their budgets.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

With civil forfeiture laws, I won't carry more than $100 on me.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
With civil forfeiture laws, I won't carry more than $100 on me.


Not the same thing as cash, of course, but I recently drove about 15 miles with a cashier's check for about $26k on me to buy my FXT...if I had gotten pulled over right then, could the officer have found that suspicious and seized it?

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: Miller88
With civil forfeiture laws, I won't carry more than $100 on me.


Not the same thing as cash, of course, but I recently drove about 15 miles with a cashier's check for about $26k on me to buy my FXT...if I had gotten pulled over right then, could the officer have found that suspicious and seized it?


Absolutely

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: Miller88
With civil forfeiture laws, I won't carry more than $100 on me.


Not the same thing as cash, of course, but I recently drove about 15 miles with a cashier's check for about $26k on me to buy my FXT...if I had gotten pulled over right then, could the officer have found that suspicious and seized it?


Absolutely


Even with a cashiers check? Its not like it was 3 10k wads of $100 bills.

 

[splinter]

Perhaps Ruben Pena-Gonzalez was buying a home for 'all cash' and was merely en route to the escrow office?

Hanging trinkets from the rear view mirror is against the law here. I eschew bumper stickers on principle.

 

[4wheeldog]

Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: Miller88
With civil forfeiture laws, I won't carry more than $100 on me.


Not the same thing as cash, of course, but I recently drove about 15 miles with a cashier's check for about $26k on me to buy my FXT...if I had gotten pulled over right then, could the officer have found that suspicious and seized it?


As long as the check is made out to another party, it is worthless to the PoPo.

 

[rshaw125]

Today you're guilty until proven innocent. Our basic rights are long gone. The Supreme Court ignores the Constitution and are driven by their political beliefs.
Makes the whole notion that American troops fighting for freedom a joke. We're not free anymore. We're all suspects.

 

[4wheeldog]

Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
This is a PSA for those who like to put things in or on their cars. On July 16, 2015 the Fifth Circuit US Court of Appeals ruled that it is suspicious for a vehicle to have air fresheners, rosaries, or pro-police bumper stickers. This is a decision where a cop pulled over a car because of a DARE bumper sticker and a rosarie on the rear view mirror. After the vehicle was searched, no drugs were found but the cops confiscated the $607,000 in cash that the passenger had.

[...]We do have concerns that classifying pro-law enforcement and anti-drug stickers or certain religious imagery as indicators of criminal activity risks putting drivers in a classic ‘heads I win, tails you lose’ position. But we need not decide whether these items alone, or in combination with one another, amount to reasonable suspicion because we find the more suspicious evidence to be the array of air fresheners and inconsistencies in the driver’s responses to the officer’s basic questions. We have long recognized that the presence of air fresheners, let alone four of them placed throughout an SUV, suggests a desire to mask the odor of contraband.[...]

So, if you have an air freshener hanging from your rear view mirror, you are a suspect.

More details are available here: http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2015/us-freshener.pdf


After reading the link, there has to be more to the story. Someone tipped the police off to the large amount of cash. And that much cash almost has to be associated with drug business.

I am still of the opinion that the police should be required to prove it, though.....Rather than be able to seize the money on pure speculation. And warrant should be required before the search, as well.

 

[Ramblejam]

http://thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2015/us-freshener.pdf

"Peña-Gonzalez concedes that the initial traffic stop was legal, but argues that Officer Tamez impermissibly extended the stop past the time permitted by the Fourth Amendment."

In other words, your click-bait title for this thread is garbage.

 

[Win]

You would really have to read the opinion, but it sounds out of whack with basic constitutional protections. Did they find contraband with the $607K or just $607K?.

Regardless, our civil forfeiture laws are a complete disgrace and an affront to the bill of rights. When I picked up my Xj12 in Houston, I took a one way plane ticket and cash. What are the odds of pulling that off today? About zero without a lot of hassle at a minimum, I'd say.

I know many business people that routinely carry $40-50K in their cars, the rationale being that cash talks, and when a deal presents itself, you need to be ready, willing, and able.

 

[splinter]

Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
...And warrant should be required before the search, as well.


Quote:
The conversation between Tamez and Mr. Peña-Gonzalez lasted for roughly three minutes. During that time, according to Tamez, Peña-Gonzalez’s carotid artery visibly pulsed, his faced twitched, and his breathing was labored. Ultimately, Peña-Gonzalez agreed to allow Tamez to search the Tahoe. Tamez found dozens of bundles of cash wrapped in black trash bags hidden behind a panel in the back of the car, and he arrested Peña-Gonzalez.


Mr. Peña-Gonzalez granted permission for Officer Tamez to search the vehicle. No warrant required.

 

[OneEyeJack]

If you do not believe that the police can take anything found in your vehicle without a warrant and without you breaking any law and keep it and leave you with no recourse then watch this.

And if this is not bad enough the police department that seizes you assets can keep them for their own use without having to justify how or what they purchase.

If you're going to make a large purchase, say for a collector car, in cash you'd better do the cash transfer inside a bank. Never venture out into the parking lot if there is a peace officer or detective anywhere nearby. The moment you do anything that can be construed as suspicious that cash is gone forever.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: splinter
Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
...And warrant should be required before the search, as well.


Quote:
The conversation between Tamez and Mr. Peña-Gonzalez lasted for roughly three minutes. During that time, according to Tamez, Peña-Gonzalez’s carotid artery visibly pulsed, his faced twitched, and his breathing was labored. Ultimately, Peña-Gonzalez agreed to allow Tamez to search the Tahoe. Tamez found dozens of bundles of cash wrapped in black trash bags hidden behind a panel in the back of the car, and he arrested Peña-Gonzalez.


Mr. Peña-Gonzalez granted permission for Officer Tamez to search the vehicle. No warrant required.


Again, you would have to read the opinion and know more of the facts of the case. Sometimes those consensual searches, aren't.

 

[Rand]

I remember a couple years ago some professional poker players got busted with their cash stake.

 

[The_Jeff]

Originally Posted By: Win
When I picked up my Xj12 in Houston, I took a one way plane ticket and cash. What are the odds of pulling that off today? About zero without a lot of hassle at a minimum, I'd say.


I've done this a couple times this spring, though with under $10k in cash. Over that amount and you have to fill out an IRS form anyway. Only hassle was a hand swab by the TSA before they even saw my boarding pass.

But, remember, even though you have to know the law, cops don't.

If you refuse to let a cop search your car, it might just end there, or he could threaten to impound it, and, of course, inventory it for impoundment/ jimmy the door to release the parking brake.

 

[SatinSilver]

I remember crossing into the U.S.(Detroit) from Canada and the customs officer asked me how much in currency I was carrying with me. I said, "76".

Him, "$76,000?!?!?!?!

Me, "no, just seventy six dollars."

 

[QuietPortage]

Probable cause for the stop was speeding.

There were many articulable facts listed here that validated continued detention while the officer investigated. An excess of air fresheners was one of them; this is a tactic that smugglers use to hide the scent of their contraband. Nervous behavior, the location, conflicting answers, stickers, the key chain, etc. were additional articulable facts. This part of South Texas, and this highway in particular are conduits for the cartels' contraband and bulk cash smuggling operations.

Articulable facts are examined together, not one by one. Both the officer and the courts look at the totality of the circumstances. After the speeding issue was resolved, they weren't questioned further because of a single sticker. The officer asked the follow-up questions because of all of these facts combined; they gave him reasonable suspicion to do so.

This guy didn't have cash with him because he was engaging in lawful business. He was en route back to the border, smuggling $600,000 for the Gulf Cartel. That money was headed to Mexico to further support the cartel's operations.

So, they were stopped for speeding. The officer asked some follow-up questions because he observed all of those items; not just because of a sticker.

There's no need for panic about a cashier's check, especially since it was made out to a specific person or business. Unless that business is "Gulf Cartel" and you're headed for the border, it'll be okay.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
This is a PSA for those who like to put things in or on their cars. On July 16, 2015

Still trolling your "Hate Cop" agenda I see