pre-mix oils - Chicksaw video opinion piece
- Thread starter super20dan
- Start date
i have been telling people this for decades
The ASTM D666 Chainsaw Test for Comparative Oil Quality.
I know people still believe that TCW3 will clog exhaust ports and cause (if you have them) power valves to seize up. But what racers have found is that more oil makes more power, and the oil chosen makes a difference with regard to how well the engine runs with a high oil content. 125cc Kart and Motocross guys try all sorts of things for a competitive edge. It was not uncommon to see them switch from thick and gooey Motul 800 and use TCW3 at 16 to 1 with perfect results.
Also it could be that quality TCW3 oils of today uses the very same polybutene base stock as today's EGD oils. The additive package and mix with other base stocks may be different, but it may not matter.
Also it could be that quality TCW3 oils of today uses the very same polybutene base stock as today's EGD oils. The additive package and mix with other base stocks may be different, but it may not matter.
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A lot of it has to do with how the engine is run also. 2-stroke equipment is meant to be run full throttle and up to temperature. If you putt-putt around at idle running 32:1 on any oil, your exhaust ports will be full of carbon and sludge. I've seen it numerous times.
That is a good point, a well tuned 2 stroke running at high power won't clog the muffler, because the EGT is hot enough to burn off the oil deposits. You'll see this on 2 stroke street bikes where they get on the highway, the exhaust heats up and an incredibly acrid fog forms behind. As the oil burns off from inside the expansion chamber and muffler.
I'll buy that. My last two saw purchases were Husky 562XP and 550XP. Both run max HP around 9,000 rpm and peak at 13,000.
As mentioned, the pre-mix 50:1 is expensive, but would be perfect for someone using a gallon or two a year.
Yesterday I spent $300 on bars and chains. 18"x.325x.050 for a 45cc Echo, 20"x.325x.058 for the 550XP and 20"x3/8"x.058 for the 562XP.
The 562 had a 28", but it's a pita for firewood gettin'.
For me, 40:1 makes more sense in the high rpm saws than 50:1.
Shell Ultra synthetic and E0 marine 93 gasoline is about a third of the cost of Husqvarna's 50:1 in a gallon can.
Walmart has the oil for $10.50/L, which works out to about $8 USD.
Question: How many of you know how to lube the clutch shaft bearing? Who does it?
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When I buy a new piece of Stihl equipment, I buy one pack of their oil with it because, if you buy the oil at the same time, it extends the warranty by 2 years. I don't use the oil though, I use the VP 2 stroke oil in all my Stihl equipment.
Those are nice saws! I recently bought a Tsumura 20" bar for my Jonsered CS2255. Definitely lighter than the factory bar and oils better.
I usually lube the bearing every so often, you have to pull the clutch drum to do it. There is a Donyboy73 youtube video showing how to do it, just make sure you don't use too much grease so it doesn't get into the clutch surfaces.
40:1 vs. 50:1 isn't a huge difference, honestly the biggest concern with chainsaws is making sure they aren't tuned too lean. If you run a saw with a dull chain or too lean then it won't really matter what oil you are running, it will still damage the piston and cylinder eventually.
dont buy stihl equiptment!-its garbage in the commercial world. if you want to use it for home duty ok -but its the worst by a long shot in the real commercil world . cheaply built and you have to go to the dealer for almost every part. they wont even give out part #,s! zama carbs! junk! . 4 mix engines! junk. echo is the only safe bet now and thats not saying much. shindawia and redmax were the best but both sold and arnt not the same machines now. personally i buy maruyama and echo now for my commercial lawn serv biz
Echo and Maruyama are both very good brands.However neither of these brands would hold a candle to Stihl in the chainsaw and backpack blower market.Also most of our contractors are now using battery powered hedgecutters and Stihl have the best range and products in the market at present.
The two Japanese brands have always made good line trimmers,but to claim the Stihl FS85,FS94,FS111-131 and FS250 are in any way inferior is just not true.
The two Japanese brands have always made good line trimmers,but to claim the Stihl FS85,FS94,FS111-131 and FS250 are in any way inferior is just not true.
dnewton3
Staff member
The "test" she ran is anecdotal and not-convincing to me.
The standards for lubes which are licensed for JASO FD and ISO L-EGD are different for a reason.
I can believe that in the VERY limited use she ran, there may not be any difference; she maybe ran them for less than an hour?
But after hundreds of hours, can we assume the same is true based on her limited "test" and observations?
I'm not willing to risk it. There are lubes out there that are FD L-EGD approved that don't cost that much. I use the Mystik brand "JT-4 Sea and Snow" which is rated for these applications.
The standards for lubes which are licensed for JASO FD and ISO L-EGD are different for a reason.
I can believe that in the VERY limited use she ran, there may not be any difference; she maybe ran them for less than an hour?
But after hundreds of hours, can we assume the same is true based on her limited "test" and observations?
I'm not willing to risk it. There are lubes out there that are FD L-EGD approved that don't cost that much. I use the Mystik brand "JT-4 Sea and Snow" which is rated for these applications.
Unfortunately Stihl isn't what they used to be. Stihl equipment used to be top of the line (especially their chainsaws), but if you've taken any of the newer ones apart going back 5 years or so, you would know that isn't the case anymore.
I service a lot of equipment for the local landscape guys. Many of them bought Stihl based on brand loyalty, and many of them have switched because of the issues they have had.Generalisations will get you nowhere.I have seen no difference in the quality today or yesterday with the commercial products.What has changed are the consumer products and all the other brands also have them.They will not last as long as the more expensive gear.
What has also changed is the introduction of M Tronic with Stihl and Auto Tune with Husqvarna.I will not repair Auto Tune product simply because I am not familiar with them and I would not advise Husqvarna dealers work on Stihl product for the same reason.
Based on jeepmans posts he has always been biased towards Husqvarna product which is fine,but don't criticise others unless you can back it up with real data.To put it in perspective I would surmise that 50% of commercial users in your country use Stihl equipment. Certainly the case in NZ.
The biggest criticism of Stihl I see on BITOG is that you can't buy Stihl parts online.Thanks goodness for that,go Stihl,it's good to hear they are looking after their dealers,the complainers will be the first to get angry when the local dealer shuts down and they have to drive miles to get their gear serviced.work.
What has also changed is the introduction of M Tronic with Stihl and Auto Tune with Husqvarna.I will not repair Auto Tune product simply because I am not familiar with them and I would not advise Husqvarna dealers work on Stihl product for the same reason.
Based on jeepmans posts he has always been biased towards Husqvarna product which is fine,but don't criticise others unless you can back it up with real data.To put it in perspective I would surmise that 50% of commercial users in your country use Stihl equipment. Certainly the case in NZ.
The biggest criticism of Stihl I see on BITOG is that you can't buy Stihl parts online.Thanks goodness for that,go Stihl,it's good to hear they are looking after their dealers,the complainers will be the first to get angry when the local dealer shuts down and they have to drive miles to get their gear serviced.work.
There is no way to determine a difference between two oil types with the short term and uneducated methods she used.
I've watched her other videos before, and they're not bad, but this one was worthless.
There has been a great deal of actual research done on this subject, and one tank of fuel run through a saw in the backyard doesn't mean anything.
It wasn't that all two strokes that ran the wrong type of oil self discructed immediately, it was that statistically water cooled motors built up deposits and failed more often, or had a shorter lifespan, the shorter life span was the same with air cooled motors with the wrong version of oil.
In the beginning there was 30w for everything, then improvements were made. As the performance and RPMs increased for air cooled motors the demands on the oil became different.
Air cooled motors tended to have more bearing failures and wear because oil additives that burned clean in water cooled motors didn't perform as well at higher RPMs and higher temperatures in the air cooled motors. Chain saws run at around 13,000 rpms, outboards max out at about 5,500 or so.
So for maximum life for both styles of motors different formulas were marketed.
I've watched her other videos before, and they're not bad, but this one was worthless.
There has been a great deal of actual research done on this subject, and one tank of fuel run through a saw in the backyard doesn't mean anything.
It wasn't that all two strokes that ran the wrong type of oil self discructed immediately, it was that statistically water cooled motors built up deposits and failed more often, or had a shorter lifespan, the shorter life span was the same with air cooled motors with the wrong version of oil.
In the beginning there was 30w for everything, then improvements were made. As the performance and RPMs increased for air cooled motors the demands on the oil became different.
Air cooled motors tended to have more bearing failures and wear because oil additives that burned clean in water cooled motors didn't perform as well at higher RPMs and higher temperatures in the air cooled motors. Chain saws run at around 13,000 rpms, outboards max out at about 5,500 or so.
So for maximum life for both styles of motors different formulas were marketed.
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There are many Husqvarnas I wouldn't buy. I also wouldn't recommend an M-Tronic or AutoTune saw. I'm curious what you consider to be "real data"? It's obvious you are a Stihl fanboy which is fine, everyone has their favorite brands, but to say one brand is way better than all the others is also a big generalization you can't back up. I've had engines apart from all the brands, no one-brand is above the others in my opinion, there are plusses and minuses to all of them.
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