My first vehicle had a whopping 65 aircooled HP (1969 VW Bug). My current car has 120. Never found a situation in either of them where I "needed" more HP.
Power needs vs. wants
- Thread starter 01rangerxl
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You need more power because the advertisements say you do. If you don't want more you are not keeping up your end of the deal. They produce the ads and you buy the stuff.
There is a fellow that delivers precious stuff, don't know what it is but it has to be kept in hand the whole time, from NY to LA in a Honda Fit. There are two drivers and they make incredible lap times. The car has ss exhaust headers and exhaust system, upgraded cylinder head and injectors but after all that it's still a rice rocket corn popper. Almost every other car on the road has more horsepower but this thing flys on the open road. The oil you ask. Red Line 5w-20 and it has a larger sump, holds 6 quarts of oil. I built that along with a crank scraper just like in my Datsun wagon. The Fit has also been lowerd a bit and has a modified suspension from a tuner in LA. This car is really fun to drive. So I think it's possible to go cross country with a small car. You may have to keep your foot down a lot but many modern cars are up to the task. His last car for this was a BMW 528 wagon but he got too many tickets. He says the Fit hardly gets a look by cops on patrol. Most of these mods were to make the engine live while at wot and handle a little better and not blow around on the highway at speed.
There is a fellow that delivers precious stuff, don't know what it is but it has to be kept in hand the whole time, from NY to LA in a Honda Fit. There are two drivers and they make incredible lap times. The car has ss exhaust headers and exhaust system, upgraded cylinder head and injectors but after all that it's still a rice rocket corn popper. Almost every other car on the road has more horsepower but this thing flys on the open road. The oil you ask. Red Line 5w-20 and it has a larger sump, holds 6 quarts of oil. I built that along with a crank scraper just like in my Datsun wagon. The Fit has also been lowerd a bit and has a modified suspension from a tuner in LA. This car is really fun to drive. So I think it's possible to go cross country with a small car. You may have to keep your foot down a lot but many modern cars are up to the task. His last car for this was a BMW 528 wagon but he got too many tickets. He says the Fit hardly gets a look by cops on patrol. Most of these mods were to make the engine live while at wot and handle a little better and not blow around on the highway at speed.
More horses on the highway is awful nice but I'd rather have the gas mileage. Our Aspire 65hp runs every bit as good as our 200hp Esacpe on the highway. Granted I don't have to pass many people where I live. My Ranger is a good compromise. Good gas mileage with still enough power. From now on unless I'm needing something to tow all my vehicles will have 4cyl and probably 5spds, good exercise.
My 90hp subaru will do 80mph no problem, but I don't really need to get anywhere in that big a hurry. It is nice to know I have a little extra on tap if I need it though.
I can say I would have to agree with the old people being more dangerous. Here in Japan there is a sticker that has to be displayed on the vehicle of a person over 65-70. For the converse, drivers in their first year also have to have a sticker. Most of the traffic problems I have seen have one of those stickers involved. The one other sticker that needs to be involved is the I'm carrying a kid, but it isn't wearing it's seatbelt, but instead climbing over the seat or jumping around, please don't break suddenly.
As to power. I have 54 hp when new. It's not enough for anything other than driving. Turning, changing lanes, merging, not really possible. Put in another person, and you take your life into your own hands.
As to power. I have 54 hp when new. It's not enough for anything other than driving. Turning, changing lanes, merging, not really possible. Put in another person, and you take your life into your own hands.
Originally Posted By: Shaman
I'm carrying a kid, but it isn't wearing it's seatbelt, but instead climbing over the seat or jumping around, please don't break suddenly.
"it's"? You're talking about a kid here.. I think you meant "its".
I'm carrying a kid, but it isn't wearing it's seatbelt, but instead climbing over the seat or jumping around, please don't break suddenly.
"it's"? You're talking about a kid here.. I think you meant "its".
JHZR2
Staff member
the reality is that we are movingback into a paradigm of larger engines and worse fuel economy.
Look at the corolla, now they are going to be offered with a 2.4L engine? The civic now has 2.0? Couple that with lower and lower fuel economy ratings.
And dont give me the EPA [censored]. We had no problem beating the old EPA numbers, let alone the new ones.
So we are getting bigger cars, bigger engines, and lower economy even in the small cars (see Honda Fit).
JMH
Look at the corolla, now they are going to be offered with a 2.4L engine? The civic now has 2.0? Couple that with lower and lower fuel economy ratings.
And dont give me the EPA [censored]. We had no problem beating the old EPA numbers, let alone the new ones.
So we are getting bigger cars, bigger engines, and lower economy even in the small cars (see Honda Fit).
JMH
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: CBDFrontier06
Nobody NEEDS 270 hp but when it comes time to make a run down Dallas's famous 20 yard-long on-ramps, it's nice to have, unless you're one of those people who doesn't mind entering the highway at 40mph causing hundreds of people to slam on their brakes as you merge.
Poor anticipation of merging folks is not a good excuse for "inconveniencing" people becaue of pull-on.
Guess what, folks have to merge... guess what, drivers can get over (usually), and at the same time, those that are merging should know how to use their mirrors and determine the best point of entry. The roads arent much better in a lot of places in NJ, but then again, folks often get over.
My fuel economy trumps other aspects of my driving profile, barring safety and "friendliness" aspects. My consideration of their presence on the road in terms of how and when I pull out does not mean that they have a free pass to go along without being considerate of me getting ready to be in the merge zone. Especially when the road is relatively open and they can get over.
Watch how the heavy trucks drive and anticipate road conditions. A lot of people have a lot to learn, and many truck drivers arent really all that good.
Power is just the convenient crutch to make up for driver training, skill and poor road design. Intelligence and consideration trumps.
JMH
Nobody NEEDS 270 hp but when it comes time to make a run down Dallas's famous 20 yard-long on-ramps, it's nice to have, unless you're one of those people who doesn't mind entering the highway at 40mph causing hundreds of people to slam on their brakes as you merge.
Poor anticipation of merging folks is not a good excuse for "inconveniencing" people becaue of pull-on.
Guess what, folks have to merge... guess what, drivers can get over (usually), and at the same time, those that are merging should know how to use their mirrors and determine the best point of entry. The roads arent much better in a lot of places in NJ, but then again, folks often get over.
My fuel economy trumps other aspects of my driving profile, barring safety and "friendliness" aspects. My consideration of their presence on the road in terms of how and when I pull out does not mean that they have a free pass to go along without being considerate of me getting ready to be in the merge zone. Especially when the road is relatively open and they can get over.
Watch how the heavy trucks drive and anticipate road conditions. A lot of people have a lot to learn, and many truck drivers arent really all that good.
Power is just the convenient crutch to make up for driver training, skill and poor road design. Intelligence and consideration trumps.
JMH
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
the reality is that we are movingback into a paradigm of larger engines and worse fuel economy.
Look at the corolla, now they are going to be offered with a 2.4L engine? The civic now has 2.0? Couple that with lower and lower fuel economy ratings.
And dont give me the EPA [censored]. We had no problem beating the old EPA numbers, let alone the new ones.
So we are getting bigger cars, bigger engines, and lower economy even in the small cars (see Honda Fit).
JMH
Could that be because the Manufacture is going to build what sells and what the majority of buyers want.
the reality is that we are movingback into a paradigm of larger engines and worse fuel economy.
Look at the corolla, now they are going to be offered with a 2.4L engine? The civic now has 2.0? Couple that with lower and lower fuel economy ratings.
And dont give me the EPA [censored]. We had no problem beating the old EPA numbers, let alone the new ones.
So we are getting bigger cars, bigger engines, and lower economy even in the small cars (see Honda Fit).
JMH
Could that be because the Manufacture is going to build what sells and what the majority of buyers want.
JHZR2
Staff member
I never said that the average buyer was smart.
JMH
JMH
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I never said that the average buyer was smart.
JMH
Your all right it is just the rest of the world is screwed up
I never said that the average buyer was smart.
JMH
Your all right it is just the rest of the world is screwed up
And you are also an enthusiast. Most people are not, and probably could barely tell a difference between an I4 and a V6 with the slow speeds that they drive at.
I'm not saying "nobody should have a fast car." I'm saying a lot of people [censored] away money on a V6 or V8 they will never use the full potential of.
My Ranger, which has the aerodynamics of a brick, a 150 HP engine, and a drivetrain designed for work and not speed, can most often be found in the left lane of I85, passing the people in their 270 HP Camrys and 400 HP Cadillacs who want to drive like sloths on Ambien. What in the world are people doing spending all that money on big engines and lower fuel economy when they drive like that? I just don't understand the (lack of)logic behind it.
I'm not saying "nobody should have a fast car." I'm saying a lot of people [censored] away money on a V6 or V8 they will never use the full potential of.
My Ranger, which has the aerodynamics of a brick, a 150 HP engine, and a drivetrain designed for work and not speed, can most often be found in the left lane of I85, passing the people in their 270 HP Camrys and 400 HP Cadillacs who want to drive like sloths on Ambien. What in the world are people doing spending all that money on big engines and lower fuel economy when they drive like that? I just don't understand the (lack of)logic behind it.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Black Bart
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I never said that the average buyer was smart.
JMH
Your all right it is just the rest of the world is screwed up
Ummm... based upon the financial position of a LOT of folks in this country... obviously they are screwed up, pursuing UNSUSTAINABLE behaviors in interest of "comfort", "luxury", "freedom", "feeling good", etc. Andnow it is biting them.
Just because the focus isnt on autos, but rather homes as of right now, doesnt change the situation. Folks are now on average rolling $31k into new car debt, notbecause theyre buying expensive cars, butbecause they roll old loans into new ones.
THe average CC debt load on a family is $11k. If you just pull those who actualy have CC debt (so the $0 folks dont skew it too much), the debt is on average $17k.
unsustainable and stupid. If you cant afford to pay for a car cash, maximize your 401k, and live CC debt free, youre doing something wrong, and "more power" is a luxury that you cannot afford.
JMH
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I never said that the average buyer was smart.
JMH
Your all right it is just the rest of the world is screwed up
Ummm... based upon the financial position of a LOT of folks in this country... obviously they are screwed up, pursuing UNSUSTAINABLE behaviors in interest of "comfort", "luxury", "freedom", "feeling good", etc. Andnow it is biting them.
Just because the focus isnt on autos, but rather homes as of right now, doesnt change the situation. Folks are now on average rolling $31k into new car debt, notbecause theyre buying expensive cars, butbecause they roll old loans into new ones.
THe average CC debt load on a family is $11k. If you just pull those who actualy have CC debt (so the $0 folks dont skew it too much), the debt is on average $17k.
unsustainable and stupid. If you cant afford to pay for a car cash, maximize your 401k, and live CC debt free, youre doing something wrong, and "more power" is a luxury that you cannot afford.
JMH
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Black Bart
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I never said that the average buyer was smart.
JMH
Your all right it is just the rest of the world is screwed up
Ummm... based upon the financial position of a LOT of folks in this country... obviously they are screwed up, pursuing UNSUSTAINABLE behaviors in interest of "comfort", "luxury", "freedom", "feeling good", etc. Andnow it is biting them.
Just because the focus isnt on autos, but rather homes as of right now, doesnt change the situation. Folks are now on average rolling $31k into new car debt, notbecause theyre buying expensive cars, butbecause they roll old loans into new ones.
THe average CC debt load on a family is $11k. If you just pull those who actualy have CC debt (so the $0 folks dont skew it too much), the debt is on average $17k.
unsustainable and stupid. If you cant afford to pay for a car cash, maximize your 401k, and live CC debt free, youre doing something wrong, and "more power" is a luxury that you cannot afford.
JMH
Some people like to live life. I'm sorry but I wasn't going to wait 5 years until I could buy my TL cash. Do I need the TL or Buick? No. The GN has countless good memories and I wouldn't trade it for anythig. They make me happy so it's worth the debt to me. What's the point of living if you don't have a little fun along the way? You come across as a very cynical person.
Originally Posted By: Black Bart
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I never said that the average buyer was smart.
JMH
Your all right it is just the rest of the world is screwed up
Ummm... based upon the financial position of a LOT of folks in this country... obviously they are screwed up, pursuing UNSUSTAINABLE behaviors in interest of "comfort", "luxury", "freedom", "feeling good", etc. Andnow it is biting them.
Just because the focus isnt on autos, but rather homes as of right now, doesnt change the situation. Folks are now on average rolling $31k into new car debt, notbecause theyre buying expensive cars, butbecause they roll old loans into new ones.
THe average CC debt load on a family is $11k. If you just pull those who actualy have CC debt (so the $0 folks dont skew it too much), the debt is on average $17k.
unsustainable and stupid. If you cant afford to pay for a car cash, maximize your 401k, and live CC debt free, youre doing something wrong, and "more power" is a luxury that you cannot afford.
JMH
Some people like to live life. I'm sorry but I wasn't going to wait 5 years until I could buy my TL cash. Do I need the TL or Buick? No. The GN has countless good memories and I wouldn't trade it for anythig. They make me happy so it's worth the debt to me. What's the point of living if you don't have a little fun along the way? You come across as a very cynical person.
Originally Posted By: CBDFrontier06
Stop being mean on hispanic drivers, they no can help it.
Stop being mean on hispanic drivers, they no can help it.
I don't think its a huge deal to make payments on a car as long as you can afford those payments. And afford to operate the car.
In the past few months on local pittsburgh news I have been watching idiots at gas stations complaining that its costing 90.00 to fill the tanks of the land combat units...I mean SUVs.
These people cant afford the vehicles they bought. Same for all the local home foreclosures. Folks arent good with the idea of a variable rate payment. They only figure for good times.
Its really sad for alot of people who didnt use their commonsense. Don't buy what you can't afford....
In the past few months on local pittsburgh news I have been watching idiots at gas stations complaining that its costing 90.00 to fill the tanks of the land combat units...I mean SUVs.
These people cant afford the vehicles they bought. Same for all the local home foreclosures. Folks arent good with the idea of a variable rate payment. They only figure for good times.
Its really sad for alot of people who didnt use their commonsense. Don't buy what you can't afford....
"anyone ever got a reckless driving ticket for going 20 mph over the posted limit?"
Power 'needs vs wants' are largely regulated by how much some level of performance costs. Looking back at muscle cars in the late 60s thru the early 70s the insurance industry took a lot of steam out the market, and the first oil crisis pretty much did it in. This time around we've seen creeping power levels on a lot of vehicles, to the point that it's funny to hear people complaining about how wasteful snd stupid SUVs and pickups are but a surprising number of 'eco friendly green car drivers' are getting the same or worse mileage. Now fuel prices are getting to the point that people are wondering if it's worth it.
Most of it is what I would consider 'faux performance' anyway, for mororns who like to speed in neighborhoods and drive poorly at speed. With better tires and maybe a wheelie bar some stock motorcycles are breaking into the 9s in the 1/4 mile, and off the showroom floor are hitting low 10s. With performance like that Darwin is always a passenger :^)
Power 'needs vs wants' are largely regulated by how much some level of performance costs. Looking back at muscle cars in the late 60s thru the early 70s the insurance industry took a lot of steam out the market, and the first oil crisis pretty much did it in. This time around we've seen creeping power levels on a lot of vehicles, to the point that it's funny to hear people complaining about how wasteful snd stupid SUVs and pickups are but a surprising number of 'eco friendly green car drivers' are getting the same or worse mileage. Now fuel prices are getting to the point that people are wondering if it's worth it.
Most of it is what I would consider 'faux performance' anyway, for mororns who like to speed in neighborhoods and drive poorly at speed. With better tires and maybe a wheelie bar some stock motorcycles are breaking into the 9s in the 1/4 mile, and off the showroom floor are hitting low 10s. With performance like that Darwin is always a passenger :^)
Bikes are a good bit into the nines completely stock, in fact. "Darwin is always a passenger." How true, great line!
It's astonishing to me to see ordinary family cars approaching 300hp and I agree that it's of questionable usefulness. Every time we have had the choice between more efficiency and more power, we have chosen more power. And more size, as well. Not that I'd begrudge anybody their choice, especially when the four-cylinder often gets only 1-2mpg less than the V6, but it is the whole package that is inefficient.
It's astonishing to me to see ordinary family cars approaching 300hp and I agree that it's of questionable usefulness. Every time we have had the choice between more efficiency and more power, we have chosen more power. And more size, as well. Not that I'd begrudge anybody their choice, especially when the four-cylinder often gets only 1-2mpg less than the V6, but it is the whole package that is inefficient.
"Not that I'd begrudge anybody their choice, especially when the four-cylinder often gets only 1-2mpg less than the V6, but it is the whole package that is inefficient."
It's amazing how much mileage varies. Our 3L V6 Taurii are getting 19 to 21 mpg in the city, while my 3/4 ton 4x4 pickup with a 5.9L I6 diesel gets 16 to 18 mpg in the city. A VW diesel is attractive for mileage but some models were as expensive as the truck.
It's amazing how much mileage varies. Our 3L V6 Taurii are getting 19 to 21 mpg in the city, while my 3/4 ton 4x4 pickup with a 5.9L I6 diesel gets 16 to 18 mpg in the city. A VW diesel is attractive for mileage but some models were as expensive as the truck.
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