Power needs vs. wants

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Years ago I heard that "horsepower is what you read about and torque is what you feel". Best summation I've ever heard.

Quote:
ShiningArcane

By the way, why does someone who talks about fuel economy drive a SUV? Do you prefer being terrifyingly high off the ground to getting good fuel economy?


Kinda lame comparison. I've never felt 'terrifyingly high off the ground' in an SUV.
 
Originally Posted By: rriddle3
Years ago I heard that "horsepower is what you read about and torque is what you feel". Best summation I've ever heard.

Quote:
ShiningArcane

By the way, why does someone who talks about fuel economy drive a SUV? Do you prefer being terrifyingly high off the ground to getting good fuel economy?


Kinda lame comparison. I've never felt 'terrifyingly high off the ground' in an SUV.


The risk of rollover is much higher in a SUV than in a sedan or station wagon, due to the difference in the shape and position of the center of gravity.
 
Torque is the actual force being produced and can be measured by a dyno. HP is calculated from torque vs rpm.

If an engine had a completely flat torque curve, it would make more and more hp as rpms rise. As the rpms rise, you're getting more powerstrokes vs time and you make more hp even though torque stays the same. In real life, at some rpm torque falls off and there comes a point where more rpm won't overcome the lack of torque.

In my torqueless wonder Acura, if I have it in manual shift mode and say 2,500rpm and floor it, it barely accelerates. On the dyno it pulled hard to 7,100rpm and torque peak was around 5,600rpm. I think this is why there's a pretty big difference between the manual and auto version of this car.

In my Buick mash the gas at low rpms and it smokes the tires. On the dyno, torque peaked at 3,000rpm with the convertor locked and it ran out of breath at 6,200rpm. This is why I run the stock 3.42 gears and a taller 28" tire.
 
My 4000 lb '98 Pathfinder was good for 168 hp and 194 lb-ft of torque. With a 5 speed, that was plenty of power for normal driving. The 98 hp and 138 lb-ft from my 2600 lb '87 Grand Am, with a 3 speed auto, was also fast enough. My Mazda3 is much faster than either, but I don't actually need the extra power.

Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine
I read somewhere that horse power was a measure of top speed rather than actual acceleration, which makes horse power figures meaningless in the context of the fact that 80 mph is the highest speed limit that exists in the United States.


You should no longer read whatever gave you that information! My car can produce its maximum horsepower at 40 mph and 68 mph, and I use it regularly.
 
Originally Posted By: 02zx9r
I've got 126 HP in my corolla. who wants some?


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my corolla was rated 102 when new in 1992. i can do 70 w/out much effort but merging into interstate or hw w/ short merger lane is no fun. it needs turbo like britney needs new hair.
 
Out of all the cars that were in my possession, I think only the '85 Escort Pony had inadequate power (1.9 liter 90hp IIRC). Trying to go faster than 70 mph on the hwy was a struggle. Passing someone at hwy speed was a chore, so I basically had to avoid it. Although it's a bit of strange as my mother used to have a '91 Escort (European though) with a 1.6 liter 90hp enigne, and that thing would go 100 mph without issues. I got it up to 110 mph at one point (according to the speedo).

My other cars:
'91 Nissan Stanza - 138 hp
'00 Honda Accord V6 - 200 hp
'01 Audi A4 1.8Tq - 170 hp (about 190hp with the chip)
'02 BMW 530i - 225 hp

I think they all had adequate power for what they were meant to be. Of course you need to relate the power to the weight of the car. 130hp in a small car will be adequate and can even be fun. 130hp in a large cruiser or SUV would be a struggle.
 
Originally Posted By: Travis99LS1
man i'm addicted to power..i honestly cant get enough..my Z28 is my daily driver and it makes 351hp at the rear wheels, but it gets 24mpg on the highway so its really not too bad on gas..i also spray a 100 shot of nitrous on top of that..so its pretty cool to be able to have ~450rwhp and still get decent gas mileage, and trust me..im probably one of the few people on here that truly knows the limits of there car.


Sounds like fun indeed. I don't think you're in the group (not the one I was referring to anyway) on whom a powerful care is wasted. After all, that's not 450hp in a Camry :)
 
Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine


By the way, why does someone who talks about fuel economy drive a SUV? Do you prefer being terrifyingly high off the ground to getting good fuel economy?

Actually, I drive a pickup.

When I did have an SUV, it went off road. I used it as it was intended to be used.

It was not "terrifyingly high" either. It was not at all a hard vehicle to drive and keep on all four tires. A little common sense goes a long way.

I sacrificed fuel economy for off road capability. A lot of people sacrifice fuel economy for power. Some people actually benefit, but many never use the power they are paying for. They would be fine with a less powerful car. It just doesn't make sense to me to buy a car with 300 HP and drive it like a grandma.
 
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine


By the way, why does someone who talks about fuel economy drive a SUV? Do you prefer being terrifyingly high off the ground to getting good fuel economy?

Actually, I drive a pickup.

When I did have an SUV, it went off road. I used it as it was intended to be used.

It was not "terrifyingly high" either. It was not at all a hard vehicle to drive and keep on all four tires. A little common sense goes a long way.

I sacrificed fuel economy for off road capability. A lot of people sacrifice fuel economy for power. Some people actually benefit, but many never use the power they are paying for. They would be fine with a less powerful car. It just doesn't make sense to me to buy a car with 300 HP and drive it like a grandma.


agreeing w/ you bro. florida drivers are the worst. they have ferarri, porsche, and lambo to cruise the beach at 5-10 mph. what a waste of juice.

and i am not the dude that call you out.
 
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Originally Posted By: The Critic
On the other hand, I went on a long trip in a 07 Accord EX-L 4-cylinder sedan. Although it was only an I4 with 166HP, the engine was smooth and quiet even at 5k+ rpms.


I blew the doors off one of those the other day when he tried to keep me from passing him, and he certainly was trying. I certainly use my 242 hp.

If you're not sacrificing economy, I don't see a problem with packing some more punch under the hood. My last car had a 160 hp 3.1L engine, and while it was very quiet at a highway cruise and got good gas mileage, the 242 hp engine in the newer car gets better mileage mile for mile, and does not downshift for anything but the steepest grades or fastest passes. Granted, that smoothness has more to do with the fact that it puts out the same torque just above idle that the old car did at its peak output.
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic

Although I didn't drive either of them, I was in a '99 Grand Prix last weekend that had the GM 3.8/4T65E combination. The engine was noisy, rough and wasn't anything special in my book.


I have driven a 1994 Regal, 1997 Bonneville, 2000 Intrigue, 2001 LeSabre and 2006 Lucerne with that powerplant and transmission combination throughout three different generations of the engine (Series I in the 1994, II in the 1997, 2000 and 2001 and III in the 2006) as well as the transmission from its original development (my 1994 had the first year that transmission was electronically controlled) to the most current model and found all of them were smooth running, torquey, quiet engines with transmissions that new how to pick and hold the right gear for the situation and you could "select" the gear with the throttle decisively.

Then again, the "lowest end" of these cars was that 1994 Regal. Of GM products, I am not sure why, Pontiacs always seem to be the worst put together. My experience with the LeSabre and Lucerne are what turned me on to newer Buicks and I really liked the Regal I had, although by the time I got into it, it was mechanically sound but full of electrical problems. Buicks seem to be pretty solidly built and buying one or two model years old, extremely good value for money. GM products still suck for resale value, but I'll gladly let someone else eat 45% on depreciation and then keep it until it dies.
 
all the cars I have ever driven in the past 14 years of having a license.

1994 ford ranger 93 hp
1987 toyota corolla 74 hp
1992 mitsubishi mirage 92 hp
1996 pontiac sunfire 115 hp
2006 pontiac vibe 130 hp

never owned a 6 or 8 cylinder engine.
 
anyone ever got a reckless driving ticket for going 20 mph over the posted limit? just asking because most cars now can do that and must do that or you'll fall asleep due to boredom.
 
i just went to court friday for burned headlight violation (98 bucks ticket) and there were people locked up for doing 90 over 65 on I95. the sad thing is these people are from out of state locked up against their wills. i also believe the fine is about 2000 bucks and up to 12 months in prison for first offense. let's just said that this town is making a lot of money on fine as it is the town's main revenue.

what you're driving brian?
 
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Here it's 50 km/h over for a reckless driving ticket and an automatic suspension plus court appearance. So 32 mph over, it basically computes out to 99 miles per hour on the fastest stretches of road in the province for how fast you can drive and not go to court.
 
Originally Posted By: M1Accord
i just went to court friday for burned headlight violation (98 bucks ticket) and there were people locked up for doing 90 over 65 on I95. the sad thing is these people are from out of state locked up against their wills. i also believe the fine is about 2000 bucks and up to 12 months in prison for first offense. let's just said that this town is making a lot of money on fine as it is the town's main revenue.

what you're driving brian?

Wow, they don't play there at all. That's harder than many places are on people driving under the influence.
 
Originally Posted By: M1Accord
i just went to court friday for burned headlight violation (98 bucks ticket) and there were people locked up for doing 90 over 65 on I95. the sad thing is these people are from out of state locked up against their wills. i also believe the fine is about 2000 bucks and up to 12 months in prison for first offense. let's just said that this town is making a lot of money on fine as it is the town's main revenue.

what you're driving brian?
Dam glad I don't live their
If I drove my vette their
they would just put me in front of a firing squad
 
Originally Posted By: M1Accord
i just went to court friday for burned headlight violation (98 bucks ticket) and there were people locked up for doing 90 over 65 on I95. the sad thing is these people are from out of state locked up against their wills. i also believe the fine is about 2000 bucks and up to 12 months in prison for first offense.

I used to live in NOVA. The way it was explained to me, you get to spend 1 day in jail for every mile over 90 mph. So, if you get caught doing 100 mph - 10 days in jail. Not sure if it's accurate, but I did know a buddy who spent 2 weeks in prison for speeding in VA.

Oh yeah, and radar detectors are illegal there of course.
 
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