Poor result with 10w-40 in freezer test.

[Audi Junkie]

I had a bunch of oils in the freezer. I wanted to see how Havoline Synthetic 10w30 was at 0f in my freezer, so I tossed in a bunch of others to compare. I had some strait 30 Havoline that was almost solid and some new Havoline DS 10w-40 that I thought would be good, but was not very fluid considering this is a newer formula biased on the thin side. I considered it to be barely acceptable, barely, for use in that temp. The Havoline Synthetic 10w30 was much better. I'm aware a 10w30 is thinner at cold temps by definition, but the 10w-40 was not good at all.

No big revelation, but I recommended this oil down to zero F and now have 2nd thoughts. I have some Havoline Synthetic 5w-40 I should throw in to compare.

Other oils comparison was interesting. Havoline DS 5w-20 stayed almost as thin as Mobil 1 0w30 and Pennzoil Platinum 5w30. The Havoline DS 5w-20 was similar to GC at this temp.

 

[Camu Mahubah]

Once I did an impromptu freezer test of 5w40 synthetic and 15w40 semi-synthetic. Both HDEO oils. The 5w40 barely beat the 15w40. It appeared to only pour slightly faster. Not much faster as I had hypothesized.

 

[addyguy]

Interesting results on the DS 5W-20. I've never had a problem w/5w30 conventionals, right down to -25/-30 C. This test seems to confirm that modern conventional 5w are darn good in the cold!

 

[ericthepig]

Audi, do you know the actual temp in the freezer when doing the test (ie, did you get this 0degF reading from a thermometer) ?

Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w30 in my freezer (I don't know the temp - I plan to get a cold temp therm. and chk this out) - the M1 was pathetic.

And this whole issue of "it flows so I would use it at xx temp" - that's very subjective - and I'm not sure how to even reach a conclusion here. Yes, the 5w's do fine - and yes, the 10w's flow - but Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w30 flows (in my freezer) like COLD honey - so I could say "well it's flowing - so I'd use it at that temp" - but at that flow rate it'll take a few minutes to makes it's way around the engine - yikes!! The 5w's I tested (PP and Schaeffer) would be blowing around the engine immediately.

Little Rock rarely sees sub-10degF - but it does occassionly - the chance of those occassions will keep me from ever using a 10w again in the winter.

 

[ericthepig]

For the sake of science - I need to buy some SuperTech 10w30 conventional and put it in the freezer and compare to the Mobil 1 High Mileage. I visually looked at the flow of the M1 - COLD honey - and I shook the bottle as hard as I could - I was completely unable to "swish" it - the stuff essentially didn't move while shaking the bottle very hard. The 5w's were splashing easily.

 

[Audi Junkie]

I bought an infrared thermometer. It was 0f some other time I checked. I'll re-verify.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I'm aware a 10w30 is thinner at cold temps by definition, but the 10w-40 was not good at all.



Huh??!!? I have a problem with the definition... a 10w- oil is by definition within some viscosity range at some temperature, -30C, IIRC. The 30 or 40 part is irrelevant to this, other than some potential mild interactions between a slightly different base oil and its VIIs, pour point depressants, etc.

A 10w30 is not thinner at the reference cold temperature compared to a 10w-40 by definition. There is a range, and there can be variability, but in theory, all 10w-whatever should fall within the same range of viscosity at the test temperature.

SOme may qualify for the next lower rating in theory, i.e. a 10w30 may flow at 5C colder in such a way that technically it is also a 5w30, but that is another discussion for another time.

Your test is a good initial analysis, but detailed analytical work may show conflicting results...

SOme will flow better than others, that is a granted, and if you are not at the correct test temperatures (-30, -35, etc), all will behave very differently, as all approach their "operating" (100C) viscosity in a different way. The test may be telling for some more benign conditions, like at 0C, where most folks will spend more time probability-wise, and that is a good thing... but I dont think you can really get insight into lube design from this test.

JMH

 

[addyguy]

Even though they both meet the '10W' requirements, a 10W-40 is thicker than a 10w30 within that range, and so may very well have poorer flow characteristics at low temps.

If you look at PDS for 10W-40 and 10w30 oils, the 10W-40 numbers will 'usually' be higher, and often by quite a bit, than the 10w30 numbers...

 

[Audi Junkie]

Both are tested at -20f, but the 10w-40 rating allows greater cranking resistance and visc than the 10w30.

 

[BuickGN]

Very interesting. I put the Amsoil straight 30 ACD in the freezer overnight and could barely tell a difference in the way it flowed. It was still very thin. I did this test to determine if I should run it year round or not and based on this, I have absolutely no problem running it all the time.

 

[Drew99GT]

The 10w-40 Havoline deposit shield is pretty darn thick at 40C compared to other 10w-40 conventional oils. The CCS and MRV specs are right on the limit as well. In addition, it has 300 ppm more zinc and phosphorous then GF-4 starburst approved oils and subsequent higher ash content, which makes it a good choice for flat tappet high performance motors.

I believe at 40C it's like 110Cst compared to something like Valvoline 10w-40 which is only 95Cst at 40C. I'm sure if you plugged the numbers into a viscosity calculator, at 0F, it would be much thicker than a Valvoline or Pennzoil 10w-40. But it still meets the SAE 10w test, so by definition, it's safe to use at temps as low as -11F (SAE 10w is tested at -11F for cold cranking and -22F for cold pumping). I wouldn't use it at anything below 0 degrees F though.

I Still think the Havoline 10w-40 is a great oil because it's one of the few OTC oils that has more zinc.

 

[Audi Junkie]

I thought DS was thinner than most in the same grades.

 

[Drew99GT]

5w-20, 5w30, and 10w30 are, but not the 10w-40 and 20w-50.

 

[mpersell]

If its like my house your wife must be out of town.

 

[deeter16317]

"pour point" is very deceptive...it doesn't really have to mean it has flow, only that it is still liquid (not be in a solid state).

We compare oil to water typically, and that's not a good comparison really.

 

[ericthepig]

My wife did come in recently and say - "oil is falling out of the freezer!"

OK - All of use low temp scientists need to standardize our process - otherwise there could be an apples & oranges situation.

Perhaps there could be some debate here - but I would recommend -

1.) 24 hr runs in the freezer. Not "over night". I think I've chked oil after four or five hours, and things degraded from there to the 24 hour mark.

2.) Anybody who could pick up a low temp thermometer - that would help - I'll try to get one soon. Otherwise, we could really have apples&organges here.

The two issues above would go a long way to making sure we're on the same page. I'm not sure what my freezer temps are set to, but both the indoor frig freezer and garage freezer turned Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w30 to goop. I'll have to see a 10w30 "flow" after 24 hours in my freezers to believe it - I'll pick up a cheap bottle perhaps tonite. Science must press on!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ericthepig
For the sake of science - I need to buy some SuperTech 10w30 conventional and put it in the freezer and compare to the Mobil 1 High Mileage. I visually looked at the flow of the Mobil 1 - COLD honey - and I shook the bottle as hard as I could - I was completely unable to "swish" it - the stuff essentially didn't move while shaking the bottle very hard. The 5w's were splashing easily.


You gotta get a quart of the Mobil 1 5w30 to make this fair

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: ericthepig
My wife did come in recently and say - "oil is falling out of the freezer!"

OK - All of use low temp scientists need to standardize our process - otherwise there could be an apples & oranges situation.

Perhaps there could be some debate here - but I would recommend -

1.) 24 hr runs in the freezer. Not "over night". I think I've chked oil after four or five hours, and things degraded from there to the 24 hour mark.

2.) Anybody who could pick up a low temp thermometer - that would help - I'll try to get one soon. Otherwise, we could really have apples&organges here.

The two issues above would go a long way to making sure we're on the same page. I'm not sure what my freezer temps are set to, but both the indoor frig freezer and garage freezer turned Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w30 to goop. I'll have to see a 10w30 "flow" after 24 hours in my freezers to believe it - I'll pick up a cheap bottle perhaps tonite. Science must press on!


I'll be happy to do this test again with the ACD, I have 3/4 gallon laying around. Mine was in there for 10 hours, I don't think it's going to get any colder but I will do the 24hour test along with a thermometer to get an actual temp. I'll try and get a video of it sloshing around (or not sloshing around).

Off topic but going to put the ATD in the freezer too just for the heck of it.

My girlfriend is going to hate me. I actually have a picture where I "tucked" the ATD and ACD in the bed on her side. She didn't think it was funny.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
A 10w30 is not thinner at the reference cold temperature compared to a 10w-40 by definition. There is a range, and there can be variability, but in theory, all 10w-whatever should fall within the same range of viscosity at the test temperature.


I'd rather say that they resemble each other in terms of physical characteristics of pumpability. A heavier grade should be heavier all the time.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Funny, it seems like Havoline DS 5w-20 is thinner than Pennzoil Platinum 5w30. Result for me is that I'm nixing using Havoline Synthetic 10w30 for Fall, when I can see +10f to +20f. I'm going with Havoline 5w-20 instead.