Polymeric Graphene, a revolution battery ?

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The Spanish Graphenano, along with the University of Cordoba and Grabat Energy, developed a polymeric graphene battery, especially suited for electric cars, that will be cheaper and lighter than conventional batteries and will run 1000km on a 10 minute charge.

This battery is even supposed to be 77% cheaper than lithium batteries


http://www.graphene-info.com/revolutionary-graphene-polymer-batteries-electric-cars

Quote:
Grabat has achieved a battery with a range of 800 kilometers and a weight of just 100 kilograms that can be loaded into a conventional outlet only one - third the time required by a lithium-ion-lithium equivalent (which are riding automakers in their electric models). Mario Martinez said in a high-density plug "could be loaded in just five minutes."

Adapted to a car like the Tesla Model S, graphene polymer batteries would increase range from 334 to 1,013 kilometers. In a Nissan Leaf range would increase from 250 to 546 kilometers on a single charge.


http://nextbigfuture.com/2016/03/spanish-company-graphenano-claims.html

Some claims don't make sense: triple the range of Tesla Model S but only 2.2 times for Nissan Leaf.
 
I'm thinking if this tech was ready for primetime and performed as advertised, companies would be pouring a lot more money into it.


I don't think any sort of household or user friendly charging setup is going to charge 1000KM worth of power in 10 minutes. That has to be some serious current.
 
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Originally Posted By: hatt


I don't think any sort of household or user friendly charging setup is going to charge 1000KM worth of power in 10 minutes. That has to be some serious current.


With over a 50% efficient charger it might be possible. If you assumed no losses to carge a Nissan leafs battery with enough power to go 1000km it would take 50 amps at 240 volts for ten minutes. So still doable if you got the losses to 50%. But there is no way possible for a house to deliver that much power with any form of charging/battery technology today. The losses are way to high in the real world. I would like to see how efficient their charger is to do this not to mention there would be a massive amount of heat generated in those ten minutes.

To do my rough math I assumed a 30kwh Nissan leaf battery with a 250km range. To do it you would actually have to charge it four times or have four batteries. That would actually mean you would have to charge the battery for 2.5 minutes four times or each battery 2.5 minutes to equal the 10 minute 1000km amount of energy needed.
 
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Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Hahahahahaha $300 dollars to buy the market report about those batteries. Talk about a load of [censored].


Exactly!
 
Numbers don't even remotely add up as jhellwig indicated. 22KW is stretching it for 2.5 hours. Doing the numbers gives you about 3.5 gal gasoline (assuming an engine efficiency of 20%.) Who jwriotes this [censored]?

My math might be slightly off, but not much.
 
Electrochemical energy storage has finite, theoretical and real limits. The storage capacity they claim is well within today's battery technology. Zinc/air batteries for example, can achieve this energy density.

However, so far, the high energy density batteries seem limited to a few charge cycles.

Also, keep in mind that battery banks with high energy density still need to conduct all that power/current. Most also need liquid cooling. This leads to a network of heavy wires/conductors/connectors, in a robust, liquid filled case. This alone results in a heavy battery. We still do not have super-conducting wire for this use.

This is why individual high tech batteries spec out with excellent specific energy. Yet, when assembled into a battery pack, the energy density is rather poor. The Chevy Volt's individual cells are capable of 248Wh/kg. However, once assembled, connected and cooled, and managed for long life, the number drops to 88Wh/kg. Sad, but true.
 
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Its only a matter of time before battery tech or powered roadways are where they need to be for everyday electric car use.
We wont see it it or other technologies used on a mass scale until there isn't enough oil in the ground worth pumping. They will milk that cow dead first, not only for the profits from the oil but the tax revenue it generates.

The electric car is much more efficient and more powerful than any gasoline engine, the electric car in its perfected form will lay waste to the energy industry (why do you think they don't want nuclear power and actually hinder the development of new sources of alternative power), aftermarket parts manufacturers and many government programs.
Too many people in high places with too much to loose will not let it happen except for a token here and there.
 
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There have been high energy density batteries for a long time and are used in certain applications. But they are all very dangerous in regards to short circuits and other electrical faults. It's going to be a long road to get these batteries in automobiles that are likely to be involved in accidents (which can also rupture the battery and spill the equally high energy contents).
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Its only a matter of time before battery tech or powered roadways are where they need to be for everyday electric car use.
We wont see it it or other technologies used on a mass scale until there isn't enough oil in the ground worth pumping. They will milk that cow dead first, not only for the profits from the oil but the tax revenue it generates.

The electric car is much more efficient and more powerful than any gasoline engine, the electric car in its perfected form will lay waste to the energy industry (why do you think they don't want nuclear power and actually hinder the development of new sources of alternative power), aftermarket parts manufacturers and many government programs.
Too many people in high places with too much to loose will not let it happen except for a token here and there.
"More powerful than 'any' gasoline engine"? Better qualify that statement.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
There have been high energy density batteries for a long time and are used in certain applications. But they are all very dangerous in regards to short circuits and other electrical faults. It's going to be a long road to get these batteries in automobiles that are likely to be involved in accidents (which can also rupture the battery and spill the equally high energy contents).
+1
 
I've got a "waterfront" lot in Florida ...they won't run a power line to it...something to do with "High Tide"...maybe I can use this new battery.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Electrochemical energy storage has finite, theoretical and real limits. The storage capacity they claim is well within today's battery technology. Zinc/air batteries for example, can achieve this energy density.

However, so far, the high energy density batteries seem limited to a few charge cycles.

Also, keep in mind that battery banks with high energy density still need to conduct all that power/current. Most also need liquid cooling. This leads to a network of heavy wires/conductors/connectors, in a robust, liquid filled case. This alone results in a heavy battery. We still do not have super-conducting wire for this use.

This is why individual high tech batteries spec out with excellent specific energy. Yet, when assembled into a battery pack, the energy density is rather poor. The Chevy Volt's individual cells are capable of 248Wh/kg. However, once assembled, connected and cooled, and managed for long life, the number drops to 88Wh/kg. Sad, but true.


88 W*hr/kg = .32 MJ/kg

Gasoline has an energy storage density of 43 MJ/kg; 136 times that of a real-world-state-of-the-art-actually-in-production Li ion battery. This is why electric cars remain a pipe dream. Even when one considers that an electric car will go 2.5 times as far for a given amount of stored energy as a gasoline car, that still means the gasoline car will have 54 times the range per pound of energy storage system.
 
No doubt electric cars are becoming more popular but a LOT of development is still required.

I often wonder why batteries and motors havent replaced the nitromethane burning engines in top fuel dragsters, I'd like to see an EV do a 3.xx second 300mph pass.

I often wonder when an EV will become available that I can charge from empty to full in the time it takes to pump 40 litres of unleaded.

Is there a reason we don't have EVs that have the 700 mile range you can get to a tank of diesel?

Until the technology equals or surpasses what's available n the market the whoe conversation is pointless, as attractive as we might like it to be.
 
Yep, necessity is the mother of invention. Until it's absolutely necessary, we won't see EVs that can match the range of ICE vehicles.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Electrochemical energy storage has finite, theoretical and real limits. The storage capacity they claim is well within today's battery technology. Zinc/air batteries for example, can achieve this energy density.

However, so far, the high energy density batteries seem limited to a few charge cycles.

Also, keep in mind that battery banks with high energy density still need to conduct all that power/current. Most also need liquid cooling. This leads to a network of heavy wires/conductors/connectors, in a robust, liquid filled case. This alone results in a heavy battery. We still do not have super-conducting wire for this use.

This is why individual high tech batteries spec out with excellent specific energy. Yet, when assembled into a battery pack, the energy density is rather poor. The Chevy Volt's individual cells are capable of 248Wh/kg. However, once assembled, connected and cooled, and managed for long life, the number drops to 88Wh/kg. Sad, but true.


88 W*hr/kg = .32 MJ/kg

Gasoline has an energy storage density of 43 MJ/kg; 136 times that of a real-world-state-of-the-art-actually-in-production Li ion battery. This is why electric cars remain a pipe dream. Even when one considers that an electric car will go 2.5 times as far for a given amount of stored energy as a gasoline car, that still means the gasoline car will have 54 times the range per pound of energy storage system.


I think you are not comparing similar things. The weight of the energy for electric cars is the "electricity". The weight of the energy for gas cars is the gasoline. This is what is consumed in the driving.

The batteries in an electric car are the energy storage device, no different than the gas tank. So, a better comparison would be driveline weight of each (meaning batteries, motors, etc).
 
Originally Posted By: Olas
No doubt electric cars are becoming more popular but a LOT of development is still required.

I often wonder why batteries and motors havent replaced the nitromethane burning engines in top fuel dragsters, I'd like to see an EV do a 3.xx second 300mph pass.

I often wonder when an EV will become available that I can charge from empty to full in the time it takes to pump 40 litres of unleaded.

Is there a reason we don't have EVs that have the 700 mile range you can get to a tank of diesel?

Until the technology equals or surpasses what's available n the market the whoe conversation is pointless, as attractive as we might like it to be.

There are alot of days where I only need 60 miles of range, and I live out in the country... The Tesla Model 3 would probably do us fine as our short range car(still has 200 mile range), and then have the vacation/towing SUV for longer trips away.
The Model 3 could be the breakthrough car, with a Camry price and cheaper running costs, it might end up selling 100-200k per year pace sooner than many think.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: Olas
No doubt electric cars are becoming more popular but a LOT of development is still required.

I often wonder why batteries and motors havent replaced the nitromethane burning engines in top fuel dragsters, I'd like to see an EV do a 3.xx second 300mph pass.

I often wonder when an EV will become available that I can charge from empty to full in the time it takes to pump 40 litres of unleaded.

Is there a reason we don't have EVs that have the 700 mile range you can get to a tank of diesel?

Until the technology equals or surpasses what's available n the market the whoe conversation is pointless, as attractive as we might like it to be.

There are alot of days where I only need 60 miles of range, and I live out in the country... The Tesla Model 3 would probably do us fine as our short range car(still has 200 mile range), and then have the vacation/towing SUV for longer trips away.
The Model 3 could be the breakthrough car, with a Camry price and cheaper running costs, it might end up selling 100-200k per year pace sooner than many think.


Pardon my obvious bias, but the Chevy Bolt stands a better chance of being the breakthrough electric car than the Tesla Model 3. Tesla is taking deposits on the car now, for delivery in late 2017. That sound like desperation a la Tucker.
 
Some posters posted these comments on that site: http://nextbigfuture.com/2016/03/spanish-company-graphenano-claims.html

Quote:
I am sorry. But here in Spain we know well these people and are fully confident that this is a scam.
The same people who are now promoting this, they have carried out a similar scam some time ago with a "green oil" from algae.
In addition, this company really lacks research staff. It is clear that they want to repeat pasts fraud.


Quote:
There isn't any 'technology' to adopt. There's a press release making wild claims not backed up by a shred of worthwhile evidence.
 
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