please help GL4 GL5 gear oil questions

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greetings i joined this forum in hopes of someone shining some light on my problem that is made worse with my OCD,

several days ago i decided to change the transaxle fluid in my volkswagen trike, seems simple enough i look up that vw wanted it to run 80w/90 SAE GL4

sounded easy but no, im in central fl, eustis and nothing i have found walk in carries a GL4 gear lube so i start my homework on it, while it would seem there is a ton of both facts and misinformation all jumbled together with lots of people just parroting what they heard, i do want to run fluid that wont kill my transaxle so i need the real deal on it.

so im hopeful some savvy oil gurus here can answer a few of my questions,

it starts with yellow metal parts, seems the mindset of most is any and all GL5 will destroy yellow metal parts like found in my vw transaxle, but not so fast, a few vw people insist that all modern available GL5 is just fine in our transaxles that it wont hurt anything, when i read the label of the product they say they use i get to my next hang up, it will state on the bottle to the effect "for non synchros transmissions" and the vw transaxle is synchros so wouldnt that be using a product the manufacture stated its not for?

next, i dont want to mail order or pay for big names im a budget person, for example walmart sells a super tech gear oil 90w and the lable says its okay on brass and copper yet its GL5 so does that mean right there dont use it in my transaxle?

so i would love to hear from people who know more that i do and can give me the run down and answer my questions,

many thanks
cheers
b
 
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Originally Posted by zrxkawboy
NAPA 80w90 is GL4/GL5 rated.


yes, and a quick look at its specs shows,

"Non-Synchronized Manual Transmissions"

and like i said in my orginal post my transaxle IS synchro so to use this i would be going against manufacturers recommendations.
 
I got my GL4 at NAPA, was $25 a gallon and in a black jug. Put it in an 02 camry 5 speed and it shifted like butter.

If you're made of money RP has a GL4 which you can get through amazon or advance auto.
 
If you need a 75W90 GL-4 for a transaxle, this list may help:

NOTE: This list is only a "suggested" list of MTFs. It is not an endorsement of any one fluid, nor is it implied that any one fluid will cure problems in MTs that have design problems or those that have excessive wear.

Amsoil MTG
Redline MT-90
Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90
Castrol Syntrans Transaxle 75w-90
Ford XT-75W90-QGT (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)
Ford MOTORCRAFT® Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid XT-M5-QS
ACDelco 10-4059 GL-4 75W-90 Manual Transmission Fluid
RAVENOL TSG SAE 75W-90
LiquiMoly 75W-90 GL4
 
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I understand your desire to use GL-4 since there is a fear that GL-5 will harm yellow metal even though the labels claim they are safe. Unfortunately I couldn't find ANY gear oil sold at the major auto parts stores that I know of, that are GL-4 only oil (just a quick search). There are several options available on line that don't cost a fortune, but, you stated you wanted local store.

Online ex.: https://www.amazon.com/Ravenol-J1C1...qid=1558378466&s=gateway&sr=8-12
 
Originally Posted by atikovi

Ya lost me at, volkswagen trike. What does the owners manual say?


i covered what volkswagen suggests 80w/90 sae, i guess you missed that too.

i assume on such a thread under automotive people are all to some degree gear heads. but ill explain,

for many decades people have made custom trikes= 3 wheelers out of the rear of a air cooled volkswagen vehicle,
such a big thing in the late 60s to 80s there were companies that made kits and fiberglass bodies,

heres my trike, but you can google volkswagen trike to learn more

[Linked Image]


back to the point of this thread, the tech im asking about has almost zero to do with the type vehicle but rather information like is GL5 okay for yellow metal like i see some insist it is or will it harm yellow metal, also these people who tell me they run non synchros gear oil in a synchros trans wont that cause issues,

and yes, i would rather buy local and not pay extra because its hard to find and trendy branded,
for example walmart sells a gal of super tech cheap gear oil made by warren for about 14 bucks, why cant i use it,

so im just hunting the deeper tech answers here.
 
If you read MolaKule topics about gear lubes.... 75w90 in GL4 is different then 75w90 in GL5... Different viscosity...GL5 is more slippery (thats why is not suitable for synchros)...
 
Originally Posted by the13bats



..back to the point of this thread, the tech im asking about has almost zero to do with the type vehicle but rather information like is GL5 okay for yellow metal like i see some insist it is or will it harm yellow metal, also these people who tell me they run non synchros gear oil in a synchros trans wont that cause issues,

and yes, i would rather buy local and not pay extra because its hard to find and trendy branded,
for example walmart sells a gal of super tech cheap gear oil made by warren for about 14 bucks, why cant i use it,

so im just hunting the deeper tech answers here.



All gear lubes have what is known as metal and corrosion inhibitors that buffer any sulfur additives from attacking ANY metal.

I suggested above a list of 90 grade GL- 4 oils that should work well in any synchronized transmission or transaxle that specifies a gear oil of 90 grade viscosity.

Hypoid gear lubes rated GL-5 DO NOT have the other important component for synchronized transmissions and that is the specialized Friction Modifier, which is why I DO NOT recommend Hypoid gear lubes for manual transmissions or transaxles.
 
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Originally Posted by Widman Link
...A traditional ...GL-4 gear oil of any given viscosity has about ½ of the level of sulfur/phosphorous
additive that would be in the GL-5 product, so the bond is not as strong, and therefore can be peeled off
without peeling a layer of brass (or less brass). This means that the GL-4 product provides a little less
extreme pressure protection, so in the differential of a high-powered car, it would not be the ideal
product in the differential. To understand this need we should be aware of the fact that the differential is
where the final torque is applied to the wheels (in most applications)...


Not quite correct anymore since GL- 4 gear oils do not use an EP additive but use an AW additive because of the gearing tooth design and contact loads. Modern GL - 4 transmission/transaxle lubes now use a Multi-Functional phosphorus additive with ZDDP as a secondary AW and oxidation inhibitor.
 
Originally Posted by atikovi
Haven't seen one of those on the road in over 30 years. Have you posted in an air cooled VW forum like VW Vortex? They would know what to use more than anyone.


you acted like you didnt know what a vw trike was, i live in a 10 sq mile town eustis fl and see them about 3 a month.
and i dont get the impression you read what i post but others did and many thanks to all for helping me.

i have been a vw person well over 40 years as i have posted i know what vw suggested,
80w/90 sae hypoid gear oil. keep in mind these vw transaxles have one oil in both trans and diff its hard to find

yes, i posted on the big vw site thesamba but a lot of ego and personal attacks came at me,

i called valvoline today, their tech explained to me that their synchromesh gl4 gear oil would be perfect for my transaxle, he also said that gl5 does attack brass copper "yellow metal" and when guys on forum who run gl5 in these vw transaxles and claim no problems just havent got there yet, he says it might take weeks or years to show signs of damage to the synchros but it will, its how gl5 is designed.

i posted that to thesamba and got flamed and called names, i told the troll go call the tech and tell him because i dont care if you run gl5 im not going to.

now in my vw trike there is very little weight there and very little stress on the transaxle, the fluid i drained is likely from 1969, it was gross, it shifted okay so it will be interesting to see if i can tell any difference with new oil

so in town i found so far both Pennzoil and valvoline offer a gl4 sychro gear oil, im now just trying to find the best price,
i believe napa carries sta lube and house brands.
 
Originally Posted by the13bats
atikovi said:
H

...i called valvoline today, their tech explained to me that their synchromesh gl4 gear oil would be perfect for my transaxle, he also said that gl5 does attack brass copper "yellow metal" and when guys on forum who run gl5 in these vw transaxles and claim no problems just havent got there yet, he says it might take weeks or years to show signs of damage to the synchros but it will, its how gl5 is designed.



If your transmission requires a 75W90 (15 cSt) why would Valvoline suggest a 9.7 cSt synchromesh MTF?
 
I thought Pennzoil was still offering a 75-90w GL-4 product in the USA.

Comes in the 1qt yellow squeezable container with the top you cut to size to fit the fill hole.
 
Originally Posted by AC1DD
I thought Pennzoil was still offering a 75-90w GL-4 product in the USA.

Comes in the 1qt yellow squeezable container with the top you cut to size to fit the fill hole.


They were supposed to introduce this product here along with newly reformulated gear oils using more GTL but it has yet to be seen at any retail outlets here in the states, kinda like Bigfoot..

If anyone spots this new product at any of the usual outlets let us know when and where.
smile.gif
 
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