Piston soak questions (search was fruitless)

[MrBaumTastic]

Edit: Car is 2019 Kia Sportage

What size socket to hand crank the motor? How often should I crank the motor by hand with 2 oz of fluid in the cylinders over a 24hr period?

How do you get the motor to crank with the plugs out? My first and only piston soak, I had plugs out and coils off (disconnected) and when I turned the key ... Nothing but an awful buzzing sound. Everyone else gets a geyser of solvent and gunk shooting out the spark plug holes. What am I doing wrong?

Is it best to drain the oil that the Berryman leaks down into before starting? I've heard of people doing both ways. That is, run the engine with the B12 in the crankcase after soaking (before changing oil) like an improvised flush, and others say to change the oil before the first start after the soak is done.

How to properly lubricate the cylinder walls after soaking? My understanding is that you pour about 1-2oz of motor oil in each hole to coat the cylinder walls so it seals when cranking after the plugs are back in. Do you hand crank it with the oil added to work it in? How long after adding the oil before you can reinstall the plugs and attempt to start it?

All input is welcome and appreciated. Ask me questions to help you help me lol

 

[Elkins45]

I've done four soaks across three cars now, all Toyota 2AZ-FE engines. I always used the starter to turn it over so I don't know why it didn't work for you.

The first time I did it I drained the oil and left the drain plug out while soaking so it would drip thru. All other times I drained it after the soak was over but before starting...except for the one "rolling" soak I did where I did one cylinder at a time and started the car in between each cylinder. I did this to prevent the long crank and panic that comes from having all four cylinders be dry with no compression. For the long soaks I used two full cans over 48 hours so there was just too much solvent in the oil for me to want to run it. For the rolling soak I didn't care because I was starting it and heating it up after each cylinder and driving off the few ounces of solvent that might have leaked thru.

The best thing I've found to lubricate the cylinder walls is two stroke engine oil because it's designed to be burned up in the cylinder. I poured in a couple of ounces and let it it for a couple of hours and then cranked it several turns before installing the plugs. I'm fairly sold on two cycle oil as the best way to get compression back quickly.

 

[MrBaumTastic]

I've done four soaks across three cars now, all Toyota 2AZ-FE engines. I always used the starter to turn it over so I don't know why it didn't work for you.

The first time I did it I drained the oil and left the drain plug out while soaking so it would drip thru. All other times I drained it after the soak was over but before starting...except for the one "rolling" soak I did where I did one cylinder at a time and started the car in between each cylinder. I did this to prevent the long crank and panic that comes from having all four cylinders be dry with no compression. For the long soaks I used two full cans over 48 hours so there was just too much solvent in the oil for me to want to run it. For the rolling soak I didn't care because I was starting it and heating it up after each cylinder and driving off the few ounces of solvent that might have leaked thru.

The best thing I've found to lubricate the cylinder walls is two stroke engine oil because it's designed to be burned up in the cylinder. I poured in a couple of ounces and let it it for a couple of hours and then cranked it several turns before installing the plugs. I'm fairly sold on two cycle oil as the best way to get compression back quickly.

Can you tell me anything else about the rolling soak method? Sounds time consuming but almost worth it, because I do recall the utter sense of dread when the car failed to start after cranking for like 30 seconds at a time for almost five minutes. (I didn't know the cause of this at the time)

 

[eljefino]

I also don't know why your starter won't try to spin over the engine-- it doesn't know there aren't any spark plugs.

I saved some "Mobil 2" (used oil) for a flush. So I did the soak, drained the oil (plus whatever Berryman's slipped past the rings), dumped in the "good" old oil, started the car, ran it for a minute, then drained that oil and went with a fresh oil/ filter change.

If you have old spark plugs, they're great to use for the first restart, as the process can foul plugs.

The top oil is good for upper cylinder lube, but it also increases compression by making the rings happier to make for an easier start. It can be anything... old 10w30 or 2-stroke oil, whatever you have laying around.

Don't put the plugs in until you burp as much fluid out as you can, obviously, or you can hydro lock things.

 

[Glenda W.]

For what it’s worth here is a visual on the procedure (on a different car). This guy has tried everything including HPL. I suggest you watch all his oil consumption vids. I don’t believe he’s cured it yet.

 

[Bailes1992]

For what it’s worth here is a visual on the procedure (on a different car). This guy has tried everything including HPL. I suggest you watch all his oil consumption vids. I don’t believe he’s cured it yet.

And take a look at his Yamalube Ring Free video! That stuff is seriously impressive!

 

[sw99]

I prefer to hand crank if you can. On my pair of 2ZR-FE's, it's pretty easy to get a socket and 1/2 ratchet on turn it manually. I will add 2-3 ounces of B12 to each plug hole and then hand crank enough to move all the pistons through the full range. Let it soak for 12 hours and repeat. I'll do this 3-4 times. I also plug the holes with rubber gloves to try and prevent any possible evaporation while the soak is working. When everything is done, I use a small section of hose on the end of a long funnel, so that I can use the shop vac to pull any remaining fluid that didn't make it past the piston rings.

Also, if you stick to the way you are doing it, make sure you pull the fuse for the fuel pump first.

 

[Kira]

I have never done a piston soak but had the idea to manually (not using the starter motor) just move the crankshaft back-and-forth 20-30 degrees.
I figure that little motion is all that's needed to facilitate solvent travel into the ring pack (obviously)....analogous to working a rusty fastener back and forth after applying a rust buster (also obviously).

Just hope your front-of-engine clutter allows access to the large nut.

Am I missing something?

 

[Jetronic]

on a manual transmission it's easy, put in a high gear and move the car forwards a bit, the wheels turn the crank for you.

I'd just connect the coils up, could be no coils means no attempt at starting on that engine.

 

[supton]

I'd just connect the coils up, could be no coils means no attempt at starting on that engine.

Is that safe? Would hate to have shooting fluid out of the cylinder with sparks nearby. No plug in the coil, it probably cannot jump to anywhere, so I'd think it'd safe. But are the coils ok to try to dry fire? sometimes flyback energy can damage things if they do not have a load.

I had a lawnmower engine that hydrolocked due to the carb float not doing its job. I pulled the plug and hit the starter to clear it out. The plug wire was close enough to metal and it set itself on fire.

 

[Jetronic]

Is that safe? Would hate to have shooting fluid out of the cylinder with sparks nearby. No plug in the coil, it probably cannot jump to anywhere, so I'd think it'd safe. But are the coils ok to try to dry fire? sometimes flyback energy can damage things if they do not have a load.

I had a lawnmower engine that hydrolocked due to the carb float not doing its job. I pulled the plug and hit the starter to clear it out. The plug wire was close enough to metal and it set itself on fire.

short out some old plugs if you're worried about sparks or damaging the coils. A tap on the center electrode will do it.

 

[AdmiralYoda]

Here is my general advice:

1. Turn the engine over by hand if possible. Very easy to do when the spark plugs are out as you are not fighting compression.
2. DO NOT turn the engine over with the spark plugs in. If the valves are closed and you have a significant amount of liquid in the cylinder it will have no where to go. Liquid doesn't compress and something will have to give (break).
3. I advise that you don't need to turn the engine over and over. You just want the piston rings to move a little bit. We aren't cleaning the cylinder walls...we are trying to free a stuck oil control ring. Turn it just a bit, like an eighth of a revolution one direction then a couple hours later turn the engine roughly the same amount the other direction. This gets the rings to move in both directions.
4. I prefer to do this with the engine oil drained and the drain plug reinstalled. Some B12 will leak past the rings and make it to the oil pan. When you are done...drain this out.

Overkill Piston Soak Procedure:

1. Drain your oil and reinstall the drain plug. While doing this make sure your car is level. If you use ramps on the front, consider adding jack stands on the rear.
2. Remove your spark plugs. Rotate the engine by hand until all of the cylinders are roughly in the middle of the piston stroke. A small wooden dowel or a long screwdriver can help with this. It doesn't need to be exact....you just don't want the B12 draining out of an open valve and not doing much good if the piston is at the top of its stroke.
3. Add a shot glass worth of B12 to each cylinder. Reinstall (loosely) the spark plugs so the B12 doesn't evaporate off.
4. After 4 or so hours take the spark plugs out and rotate the engine clockwise about an eighth of a turn. Add another shot of B12 to each cylinder and put the spark plugs back in.
5. After another 4 hours or so...time to see how much B12 is left in the cylinders. A boroscope works well or you can use a wooden dowel or screwdriver as a "dipstick". Sometimes the B12 completely drains out through the rings. Sometimes the rings are sealing well and nothing drains. If there is still plenty of B12 in the cylinder....no need to add more. If it drained out...add some more to those cylinders. This time rotate the engine an eighth of a turn counter clockwise.
6. Repeat steps 5-6 for as long as you can stand. A couple days would be best. It keeps exercising the rings a bit and keeps fresh B12 in there if it is draining out.

Get the crap out of there:

1. You need to get the remaining B12 out of the cylinders. I prefer to use a fluid extraction pump to suck it all out vs using the starter to turn the engine over rapidly with the spark plugs out. The B12 makes a mess, eats paint and more importantly the rings are unlubricated. I don't want them traveling up and down my cylinders at this point.
2. Drain any B12 that made it into your oil pan. If you want to go full overkill add a quart of cheap oil to the fill port to flush out any B12 that might not have drained out of the pan.
3. Add fresh oil and install a new filter.
4. IMPORTANT. Add a shot glass worth of engine oil to each cylinder. This will help lubricate the rings and make sure the cylinder walls don't get scored.
5. With the spark plugs out, put a towel over the engine. Time to lubricate the cylinder walls and blast out any extra oil. Remove the fuel pump fuse so we don't inject fuel into the cylinders while we do this. Use your starter to turn the engine over for 5-10 seconds.
6. Put the plugs back in put the fuel pump fuse back in. Button everything back up.

Italian Tune Up Time!

1. Fire it back up! Don't be surprised if it takes a while to start back up or sputters a bit. The rings have lost their seal and need to set to gain compression again. Once it does fire back up it may run rough for a few seconds or smoke a bit.
2. Take it for a gentle drive. Once it is up to operating temp go find a long stretch of highway and give it an Italian tune up.
3. Keep the RPM's up (nothing stupid) and give it a number of periods of full throttle runs. Run it for as long as you can on the highway to make sure the engine is good and hot.

 

[Elkins45]

Can you tell me anything else about the rolling soak method? Sounds time consuming but almost worth it, because I do recall the utter sense of dread when the car failed to start after cranking for like 30 seconds at a time for almost five minutes. (I didn't know the cause of this at the time)

I did one cylinder per day. Pull the plug and coil for cylinder #1 and let it soak overnight, suck out any remaining fluid then reinstall the coil/plug and start and drive for at least until the oil is up to temp. That will drive off any Berryman's that made it past the rings. That evening repeat the same for #2, etc...

After I did all four I went ahead and changed the oil just in case it was full of solids. In 3/4 of the starts it barely stumbled but on one cylinder it misfired badly enough to trip a code. I don't know if that was because it was really clean or really dirty

 

[Elkins45]

Is that safe? Would hate to have shooting fluid out of the cylinder with sparks nearby. No plug in the coil, it probably cannot jump to anywhere, so I'd think it'd safe. But are the coils ok to try to dry fire? sometimes flyback energy can damage things if they do not have a load.

I'll bet that's what killed the coil on my 09. I got lazy and just pulled the coils without disconnecting them from the wire harness. I wasn't worried about ignition because of the heavy towel over the valve cover, but I didn't consider the risk to the coils themselves.

Live and learn I suppose.

 

[Bladecutter]

Edit: Car is 2019 Kia Sportage

Haven't you already done nearly half a dozen piston soak services on this car?
Why are you still asking these basic questions that you've already done?

What size socket to hand crank the motor?

What is the biggest size socket that you own?
Is it bigger or smaller than that?
Do you own a ruler?
Yes? Go measure the bolt, and go buy a socket that will fit that bolt.

How often should I crank the motor by hand with 2 oz of fluid in the cylinders over a 24hr period?

Seriously?
Don't you have access to YouTube?
Go watch a piston soak video and do what they do.

How do you get the motor to crank with the plugs out?

It's called a wrench.
I put a socket on one end of the wrench, I put the socket over the bolt head, and then I push on the long skinny end of the wrench, while I monitor how far up or down I want the pistons to go by sticking a long stick into the spark plug hole.
How else do you think this happens in a precise manner?

My first and only piston soak, I had plugs out and coils off (disconnected) and when I turned the key ... Nothing but an awful buzzing sound. Everyone else gets a geyser of solvent and gunk shooting out the spark plug holes. What am I doing wrong?

Well, that answers my question about you and precision.
You might want to charge your battery. Just a guess.

Is it best to drain the oil that the Berryman leaks down into before starting? I've heard of people doing both ways. That is, run the engine with the B12 in the crankcase after soaking (before changing oil) like an improvised flush, and others say to change the oil before the first start after the soak is done.

Pick one.
You pick one.
YOU pick one.
YOU, PICK ONE.

How to properly lubricate the cylinder walls after soaking?
My understanding is that you pour about 1-2oz of motor oil in each hole to coat the cylinder walls so it seals when cranking after the plugs are back in.

If that's your understanding, why are you questioning it?
You must have learned this from somewhere.
Do you not trust your original source anymore? Why don't you?

Do you hand crank it with the oil added to work it in?

Only if you want to have that oil spread all over the cylinder walls.

How long after adding the oil before you can reinstall the plugs and attempt to start it?

Somewhere between the moment after you stop pouring the oil into the spark plug hole, and after you stop rotating the engine by hand.

You see, you can't put the spark plugs back in while you are still pouring oil into that spark plug hole, because you will make a mess of your hands, tools, and the spark plug. And you still have to reinstall the spark plug wires, or the ignition coils, or whatever else you took off to get the spark plugs out in the first place,

All input is welcome and appreciated. Ask me questions to help you help me lol

Remember, YOU asked for it.

 

[MrBaumTastic]

Haven't you already done nearly half a dozen piston soak services on this car?
Why are you still asking these basic questions that you've already done?



What is the biggest size socket that you own?
Is it bigger or smaller than that?
Do you own a ruler?
Yes? Go measure the bolt, and go buy a socket that will fit that bolt.



Seriously?
Don't you have access to YouTube?
Go watch a piston soak video and do what they do.



It's called a wrench.
I put a socket on one end of the wrench, I put the socket over the bolt head, and then I push on the long skinny end of the wrench, while I monitor how far up or down I want the pistons to go by sticking a long stick into the spark plug hole.
How else do you think this happens in a precise manner?



Well, that answers my question about you and precision.
You might want to charge your battery. Just a guess.



Pick one.
You pick one.
YOU pick one.
YOU, PICK ONE.



If that's your understanding, why are you questioning it?
You must have learned this from somewhere.
Do you not trust your original source anymore? Why don't you?



Only if you want to have that oil spread all over the cylinder walls.



Somewhere between the moment after you stop pouring the oil into the spark plug hole, and after you stop rotating the engine by hand.

You see, you can't put the spark plugs back in while you are still pouring oil into that spark plug hole, because you will make a mess of your hands, tools, and the spark plug. And you still have to reinstall the spark plug wires, or the ignition coils, or whatever else you took off to get the spark plugs out in the first place,



Remember, YOU asked for it.

Thanks for your time, dude

 

[M56959]

Folks if you aren't interested in answering questions, save everyone the time and skip posting questions.