Pilot Now E15?

[MrJayhawk]

What does that explain exactly? How its able to be sold?
It appears to have nothing to do with pilot only carrying e15.

Sheetz has had e15 on separate pumps for years here.

Pilot just being pilot is my take.. probably makes 5cents more per gallon.. the owner has to afford that new browns dome somehow... oh wait.

It would be interesting to test the gas and see the ethanol % though.

I took this pic a little early but it stabilized at about 6% ethanol.
it was 87 Top tier from getgo.. sourced from KAG - (Kenan advantage group)
View attachment 288318

Umm, no on the Browns,

On October 3, 2017, it was announced that Warren Buffett-controlled Berkshire Hathawaywould acquire 38.6% of Pilot Flying J, with plans to increase its stake to 80% in 2023. The Haslam family and FJ Management will retain ownership stakes until then, upon which the Haslam family will retain the remaining 20% and FJ Management will withdraw altogether. The Haslam family will retain control of day-to-day operations of the company. In January 2024, the Haslam family sold the remaining 20% to Berkshire Hathaway.

 

[Rmay635703]

93 octane is a MUST.

93 octane is rare in this area and if you do find it’s always e10
Also not worth $2/gal more for the privilege

91 is everywhere
E85 is common

 

[Mainia]

93 octane is rare in this area and if you do find it’s always e10
Also not worth $2/gal more for the privilege

91 is everywhere
E85 is common

View attachment 288343

You/we will always get corn gas in the upper midwest since we grow it. Here in Minneapolis/St Paul and the 5-6 rings suburbs, BP has 93 and 1/4 of the Shells have it. Some others have 92 octane. It appears they work off of base gas and they add corn to raise octane. Where you live they use 89 base to make 91 and small run of straight 91 for small engines and marine. I bet is Minnesota they use the base 91 we use for marine and small engines to add corn for the 93. All our hwy gas has to have 10% corn, I assume Wisconsin is the same.

 

[Rand]

You/we will always get corn gas in the upper midwest since we grow it. Here in Minneapolis/St Paul and the 5-6 rings suburbs, BP has 93 and 1/4 of the Shells have it. Some others have 92 octane. It appears they work off of base gas and they add corn to raise octane. Where you live they use 89 base to make 91 and small run of straight 91 for small engines and marine. I bet is Minnesota they use the base 91 we use for marine and small engines to add corn for the 93. All our hwy gas has to have 10% corn, I assume Wisconsin is the same.

Getgo had 93 octane when they were supplied by HOC (not top tier)
when they switched to KAG they went top tier but 92 octane.

Umm, no on the Browns,

On October 3, 2017, it was announced that Warren Buffett-controlled Berkshire Hathawaywould acquire 38.6% of Pilot Flying J, with plans to increase its stake to 80% in 2023. The Haslam family and FJ Management will retain ownership stakes until then, upon which the Haslam family will retain the remaining 20% and FJ Management will withdraw altogether. The Haslam family will retain control of day-to-day operations of the company. In January 2024, the Haslam family sold the remaining 20% to Berkshire Hathaway.

Wow I totally missed that and google still showed he owned it.. thanks google (Haslem net worth showed he still owned it on the search)

And thank you for the correction.

I'd venture to guess it is the management team squeezing some extra profits for birkshire hathaway then
the only reason to go e15 for base gas at the same price of e10 is profit afaik.


to go back off topic Haslem family net worth is over 14billion. he sure needs Ohio handouts for the new browns stadium... /salty

 

[K-Man]

Pilot is not on the Top Tier fuel participant list. Also, the EPA continues to grant waivers allowing E15 in place of E10. I couldn't find any requirements that the pumps have new stickers showing the fuel may contain more than E10.

State laws generally mandate correct labeling of ethanol percentages.

 

[racer12306]

Minimum fueling volume 4 gallons

Why is it illegal to dispense less?

Mimimum fueling?? What about motorcycles, lawn equipment or gas cans?

I didn't dig much further than the Google AI response, however:

"Is it illegal to pump less than 4 gallons of gas?"

No, it is generally not illegal to pump less than 4 gallons of gas. The four-gallon minimum purchase rule primarily applies to pumps that dispense E15 fuel, a blend containing 15% ethanol, from a hose shared with E10 (10% ethanol). This rule aims to prevent damage to engines not designed for higher ethanol blends like E15.

Here's a more detailed explanation:

• E15 and Blended Pumps:
  When a gas station uses a "blender pump" to offer both E10 and E15 from the same hose, the EPA requires a four-gallon minimum purchase. This is because the residual E15 in the hose could contaminate the first few gallons of E10 dispensed, potentially harming engines that are not designed to handle higher ethanol levels.
  
  
• E10 and E0 Pumps:
  If a pump only dispenses E10 or E0 (no ethanol), there is no four-gallon minimum purchase requirement.
  
  
• Intent and Consequences:
  While it's not illegal for an individual to pump less than four gallons, intentionally circumventing the four-gallon minimum on a blended pump could lead to issues. If a gas station owner allows customers to consistently pump less than the required amount, they could face fines or other actions from the EPA, according to eagle1023fm.com.
  
  
• Example:
  If you have a motorcycle or a small engine that can't handle E15, and you're using a blended pump, you would need to pump at least four gallons of E10 to ensure the E15 is flushed out of the hose. However, if you're using a pump that only dispenses E10, you can pump any amount.

Reference Link
https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registrat...ss than,pumps that dispense both E10 and E15?

 

[Rmay635703]

I didn't dig much further than the Google AI response, however:

"Is it illegal to pump less than 4 gallons of gas?"



Reference Link
https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registration-reporting-and-compliance-help/frequent-questions-related-motorcycle-fueling#:~:text=A2: Dispensing E10 in volumes less than,pumps that dispense both E10 and E15?

Unless the pump briefly switches to e0 to ensure the e15 is diluted to e10, I really don’t see how this matters.

If you for example have 2 gallons of e15 in the lines and run 4 gallons of “e10” you still have e12.5

Seems kinda pointless.

Run 2 hoses to the handle and you could almost instantly have any mix

State laws generally mandate correct labeling of ethanol percentages.

Ours always say up to xx% and when tested are usually significantly below the max (which seems to vary by season and local economics)

As an example we have had year round e15 at some locations up to 15 years (and at a few historic blenders by the feed mills since slightly after 2002 since technically you could get whatever you wanted at the push of a button e10/20/30/50/85)

The actual amount of ethanol when tested on e15 pumps was sometimes e10, other times right on the edge below 15% (there is a legal limit so ours is almost but never quite 15%)

This year is actually the first year I can remember that both e10/15 are actually right at the upper legal limit continuously , I’m told that it’s because my area no longer gets much of any fuel from the northern pipeline and we are also refiner constrained

 

[Tdbo]

Getgo at 5th street (44203) is currently 2.61, $2.31 with advantage pay. I used a 30gal rewards at $3.15 the day Iran was bombed thinking it was going up
so of course that makes gas go to 2.31 currently.. Although it might be farther impacted by the recently completed buyout of getgo. Couche-Tard is the new owner not Giant Eagle(grocery store).
92 octane e10 was $3.81

The thing about that sale that will be interesting to watch is whether or not they will maintain TT status on the fuel.

 

[Rand]

The thing about that sale that will be interesting to watch is whether or not they will maintain TT status on the fuel.

I think that will be longer term they have a signed contract with KAG but I dont know its length.

 

[john_pifer]

93 octane is a MUST.

You find it worth paying that much more?

In my area, it's at least 90 cents per gallon more expensive, and at some places, even a full dollar per gallon extra!

 

[kschachn]

You/we will always get corn gas in the upper midwest since we grow it. Here in Minneapolis/St Paul and the 5-6 rings suburbs, BP has 93 and 1/4 of the Shells have it. Some others have 92 octane. It appears they work off of base gas and they add corn to raise octane. Where you live they use 89 base to make 91 and small run of straight 91 for small engines and marine. I bet is Minnesota they use the base 91 we use for marine and small engines to add corn for the 93. All our hwy gas has to have 10% corn, I assume Wisconsin is the same.

No it isn't a state-wide mandate. Only in those localities which independently mandate RFG, and in the 5-county nonattainment area in southeastern Wisconsin. Elsewhere they are free to sell whatever sells.

 

[john_pifer]

Yeah, last month we took a road trip and stopped at a Pilot to use the restroom, and even though we normally use Shell gas, we decided to go ahead and refuel there for convenience.

I noticed the E15 decal on the pump. This was the first time I've seen this with no other fuel option, and I actually wasn't sure whether it was safe to use in our Odyssey. I had to check the owners manual to make sure it was OK (it was).

I'd still rather have E10, as it contains more energy and will result in better economy.

 

[kschachn]

Yeah, last month we took a road trip and stopped at a Pilot to use the restroom, and even though we normally use Shell gas, we decided to go ahead and refuel there for convenience.

I noticed the E15 decal on the pump. This was the first time I've seen this with no other fuel option, and I actually wasn't sure whether it was safe to use in our Odyssey. I had to check the owners manual to make sure it was OK (it was).

I'd still rather have E10, as it contains more energy and will result in better economy.

What state was this?

 

[john_pifer]

What state was this?

We drove from Nashville area to Warsaw, IN. So it would have been either IN or KY.

 

[tmorris1]

No it isn't a state-wide mandate. Only in those localities which independently mandate RFG, and in the 5-county nonattainment area in southeastern Wisconsin. Elsewhere they are free to sell whatever sells.

Pretty sure MN mandates ethanol in all but specific pumps designated for off road and collector vehicles.

https://www.mda.state.mn.us/environment-sustainability/ethanol-minnesota

 

[kschachn]

Pretty sure MN mandates ethanol in all but specific pumps designated for off road and collector vehicles.

https://www.mda.state.mn.us/environment-sustainability/ethanol-minnesota

I meant here in Wisconsin, sorry. It’s not mandated state-wide in Wisconsin.

 

[Wrenchturner44]

E15 is pretty common now here in the midwest, and via the waiver talked about in this video can now be dispensed from pumps labled E10 or "may contain 10% ethanol.

 

[Mazomopar]

I would imagine the 10 percent will go away eventually, won't it? Must drive retailers crazy with the need to offer all the options.

 

[Rmay635703]

I would imagine the 10 percent will go away eventually, won't it? Must drive retailers crazy with the need to offer all the options.

20 years ago our feed mills had a cheap blender pump out front that offered cheaper high octane ethanol gas.

You could select
87e0
89e10
91e20
93e30
E50 or e85

They only had 2 tanks and 2 handles on each side.

I see no reason why the above video is even a thing .
Our e15 has varied seasonally from e10 to almost e15 for 15 years on the 88 pump depending on economics.

Now days our mid grade has all been replaced by 88e15
87 is almost always e10
And 91 is almost always e-free

Mislabeling seems like an extremely stupid way of handling a simple problem and 87e15 is NOT something I want to see at the pump with no other options because it means our base fuel is further enschmidtificationing in quality.

If stations want to sell e15 they should have the 3 tank solution
84e0
91e0
E85

Then the person buying can select any octane at any ethanol content and you don’t have to trick anyone with an 87e10 pump that actually has 15%

I would imagine the 10 percent will go away eventually, won't it? Must drive retailers crazy with the need to offer all the options.

Why? You only need 2 pump handles to carry e0/e10 and e15->e85
and many of our stations have many more handles than that for god knows

 

[Wrenchturner44]

20 years ago our feed mills had a cheap blender pump out front that offered cheaper high octane ethanol gas.

You could select
87e0
89e10
91e20
93e30
E50 or e85

They only had 2 tanks and 2 handles on each side.

I see no reason why the above video is even a thing .
Our e15 has varied seasonally from e10 to almost e15 for 15 years on the 88 pump depending on economics.

Now days our mid grade has all been replaced by 88e15
87 is almost always e10
And 91 is almost always e-free

Mislabeling seems like an extremely stupid way of handling a simple problem and 87e15 is NOT something I want to see at the pump with no other options because it means our base fuel is further enschmidtificationing in quality.

If stations want to sell e15 they should have the 3 tank solution
84e0
91e0
E85

Then the person buying can select any octane at any ethanol content and you don’t have to trick anyone with an 87e10 pump that actually has 15%


Why? You only need 2 pump handles to carry e0/e10 and e15->e85
and many of our stations have many more handles than that for god knows

You only have to have more handles (one for each octane offered) or you have to have an electronic placard that indicates which grade is being selected / sold at time of sale.