Pilot Compensation Up To $590,000 Per Year

[john_pifer]

I once ferried a 767 from EWR to JFK. As a ferry, no passengers, we had wider latitude on rules.

I allowed a flight attendant to sit on the jumpseat during the 30 minute flight (lots of vectors.) and made sure she understood sterile cockpit. She could listen and watch, no questions, no talking.

She was wide-eyed on parking. “I had no idea how busy you guys are!”

Yeah, because you’re not allowed to come into the cockpit when we are busy. It’s called sterile cockpit for a reason.

They see us at cruise and think that’s what the job is…

That’s funny!

Have you ever noticed how little some people stray out of their little everyday life bubble?

 

[Astro14]

That’s funny!

Have you ever noticed how little some people stray out of their little everyday life bubble?

It was once part of United flight attendant training - one flight on the cockpit jumpseat. It went away a while ago. Sure, it costs a bit of money - a day's pay for a flight attendant - but it would absolutely make the team better.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

I want my surgeon and my airline pilot to be competent and well paid comensurate with their competency. They both have my life in their hands. I have no problem with this.

Exactly. I often wonder how and "just where do enough of these special , some one of a kind people we all need come from?" They deserve what they get and likley some more than our society/economy/govs will allow them to receive.

 

[totegoat]

I would like to see if I could get by on $590,000 a year..........

 

[John105]

That's about 90k more than a lifeguard in LA

#Baywatch

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/los-angeles-lifeguard-pay-tops-500000

 

[PWMDMD]

Let me put it this way...I don't want the person piloting my plane to feel undervalued for their efforts. That's a whole lot of responsibility and skill and that deserves commensurate compensation.

 

[supton]

Let me put it this way...I don't want the person piloting my plane to feel undervalued for their efforts. That's a whole lot of responsibility and skill and that deserves commensurate compensation.

I don't disagree.

I had no idea what the pay was... I see Astro's remarks about how it was decades to get there, and not a road without bumps, so I respect that. But dang, if I read between the lines, his worst year was likely better than my best year, income wise. Granted, I didn't do boot camp, 80 hour weeks and whatever he (and others) did to climb the ladder, but... somedays one wonders about the choices they made when they were younger.

 

[Astro14]

I don't disagree.

I had no idea what the pay was... I see Astro's remarks about how it was decades to get there, and not a road without bumps, so I respect that. But dang, if I read between the lines, his worst year was likely better than my best year, income wise. Granted, I didn't do boot camp, 80 hour weeks and whatever he (and others) did to climb the ladder, but... somedays one wonders about the choices they made when they were younger.

I’m quite certain my worst year ($24,000 annual gross, year one pay, at a major airline, when I had 12 years of flying experience) was below yours.

Reading between the lines often leads to errors.

But we have fixed that. Our latest contract eliminated the “B-Scale” on which I started. An artifact of the 1985 strike. Gone.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

I don't disagree.

I had no idea what the pay was... I see Astro's remarks about how it was decades to get there, and not a road without bumps, so I respect that. But dang, if I read between the lines, his worst year was likely better than my best year, income wise. Granted, I didn't do boot camp, 80 hour weeks and whatever he (and others) did to climb the ladder, but... somedays one wonders about the choices they made when they were younger.

Can you tell us what you do for a living please to put your income difference in perspective.

You cannot expect to make as much as some people unless you can give some additional information.

Some flight attendants think they should be paid the same as pilots.

A flight attendant union up here once had a human rights complaint based on their feeling pilots were paid too much compared to them.

Thats how screwed up some people’s perception of fairness is.

It’s all about choices and working hard to achieve a goal.

Trust me, most pilots wondered if they had made the right choice 20 years ago , things were that bad. Not just pay cuts, layoffs and career regression and airline bankruptcies.

Lots of people would like what I have today but they wouldn’t be willing to go through what I went through to get here.

If a person is jealous what a pilot makes, go spend a min of $100K, get a university degree and then spend years ( not today because they are short pilots ) gaining experience and apply for a job at a major airline.

The flight attendants’ union launched a complaint against the employer airline under s. 11 of the Canadian Human Rights Act, claiming that the employer discriminated against flight attendants, a predominantly female group, by paying them differently than mechanics and pilots, who were predominantly male. Under s. 11, it is a discriminatory practice for an employer to establish differences in wages between male and female employees employed in the same “establishment” who are performing work of equal value. According to s. 10 of the Equal Wages Guidelines, 1986adopted under the Act, employees of an establishment include all employees subject to a “common personnel and wage policy”. Addressing a preliminary question, the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal found that the wages of the flight attendants could not be compared to the wages of the other two groups since they were not in the same “establishment”. It emphasized that the vast majority of the employer’s wage and personnel policies applicable to the employees in the three groups were found in separate collective agreements and in branch‑specific manuals that applied only to a particular bargaining unit. Given the differences between the policies as reflected in those agreements and manuals, the Tribunal concluded that the flight attendants had failed to prove a common personnel and wage policy, and dismissed the complaint. On judicial review, the Federal Court—Trial Division upheld the dismissal, but the Federal Court of Appeal allowed the union’s appeal.
https://qweri.lexum.com/calegis/rsc-1985-c-h-6-en

 

[supton]

I’m quite certain my worst year ($24,000 annual gross, year one pay, at a major airline, when I had 12 years of flying experience) was below yours.

Reading between the lines often leads to errors.

But we have fixed that. Our latest contract eliminated the “B-Scale” on which I started. An artifact of the 1985 strike. Gone.

Apologies; I did extrapolate too much.

 

[supton]

Can you tell us what you do for a living please to put your income difference in perspective.

Electrical engineer, bachelors degree. I did start a masters, got about halfway, life got busy and I got distracted. Kinda regret that now, although I'd say, if I don't change employers it won't impact my pay. 20+ years designing printed circuit boards for a semiconductor manufacturer. Risen to manager level, overseeing work output of about 13 people, although I'm stepping out of that role soon and going back to individual contributor (too much stress).

 

[y_p_w]

Electrical engineer, bachelors degree. I did start a masters, got about halfway, life got busy and I got distracted. Kinda regret that now, although I'd say, if I don't change employers it won't impact my pay. 20+ years designing printed circuit boards for a semiconductor manufacturer. Risen to manager level, overseeing work output of about 13 people, although I'm stepping out of that role soon and going back to individual contributor (too much stress).

I remember an interview (didn't get the job) at a major semiconductor company where I previously worked as a contractor. It was over my computer, so I didn't meet anyone in person. My first interviewer asked who I remembered while I was working there and gave him the five names I remembered. I then asked what his name was, and he gave me his name, although I didn't notice that it was in the corner of the video of him. Turns out he was my direct manager there, and I was feeling a little bit sheepish that I didn't recognize him (he looked very different). But in the end he was an individual contributor, where he noted that he got out of managing people years ago. It's a very different skillset.

Still - going back to the original topic, I understand being a civilian pilot is very different than being a military pilot, in that military pilots are usually commissioned officers who will have to manage personnel. Except I suppose warrant officers.

 

[John105]

Electrical engineer, bachelors degree. I did start a masters, got about halfway, life got busy and I got distracted. Kinda regret that now, although I'd say, if I don't change employers it won't impact my pay. 20+ years designing printed circuit boards for a semiconductor manufacturer. Risen to manager level, overseeing work output of about 13 people, although I'm stepping out of that role soon and going back to individual contributor (too much stress).

imho engineers have traditionally started out with a high salary, that fizzles out in < 10 years. Most people I know from my era went on to get MBAs, many of whom like myself, have not really had a chance to apply it. My buddy went from mechanical engineering to becoming a CFA and managing a mutual fund. I always kidded with our other friends that I'd never invest in his fund (it trailed the S&P year after year for over a decade), but then again, I buy into the Jack Bogle philosophy. His career led to a 6 mil home which most people including myself never will attain.

The one thing I can say for engineering and engineers--it's a necessary occupation, and people are generally intelligent who get a degree in that field. Of course there are exceptions, it's my opinion and ymmv. When I see my 9 y.o. seemingly understanding math, I feel optimistic.

 

[supton]

imho engineers have traditionally started out with a high salary, that fizzles out in < 10 years. Most people I know from my era went on to get MBAs, many of whom like myself, have not really had a chance to apply it. My buddy went from mechanical engineering to becoming a CFA and managing a mutual fund. I always kidded with our other friends that I'd never invest in his fund (it trailed the S&P year after year for over a decade), but then again, I buy into the Jack Bogle philosophy. His career led to a 6 mil home which most people including myself never will attain.

The one thing I can say for engineering and engineers--it's a necessary occupation, and people are generally intelligent who get a degree in that field. Of course there are exceptions, it's my opinion and ymmv. When I see my 9 y.o. seemingly understanding math, I feel optimistic.

I've long said that the career ladder for engineering is a stepstool. Junior, regular, senior, maybe 5 years to climb each rung? After that it's management. There's an attempt to rectify that, giving more titles (and presumably pay) but... I suspect it's more about titles than pay.

You may be right on pay, the $46k I started out at inflates to $80k today. I make more but not a multiple, and that's after 20+ years and rising to manager's pay. At least I get to sit in front of a computer, and better yet, nothing falls out of the sky when I screw up. Low risk, low consequence, thus the pay matches.

 

[loneryder]

I once ferried a 767 from EWR to JFK. As a ferry, no passengers, we had wider latitude on rules.

I allowed a flight attendant to sit on the jumpseat during the 30 minute flight (lots of vectors.) and made sure she understood sterile cockpit. She could listen and watch, no questions, no talking.

She was wide-eyed on parking. “I had no idea how busy you guys are!”

Yeah, because you’re not allowed to come into the cockpit when we are busy. It’s called sterile cockpit for a reason.

They see us at cruise and think that’s what the job is…

Was she good looking? Lol

 

[y_p_w]

I've long said that the career ladder for engineering is a stepstool. Junior, regular, senior, maybe 5 years to climb each rung? After that it's management. There's an attempt to rectify that, giving more titles (and presumably pay) but... I suspect it's more about titles than pay.

You may be right on pay, the $46k I started out at inflates to $80k today. I make more but not a multiple, and that's after 20+ years and rising to manager's pay. At least I get to sit in front of a computer, and better yet, nothing falls out of the sky when I screw up. Low risk, low consequence, thus the pay matches.

There are cases where there could be serious consequences if something goes wrong with electronics or software. Just look at the 737MAX. There are interesting disclaimers on the use of electronics in medical equipment or other critical applications.

https://www.kyocera-avx.com/resources/catalogs/datasheet-catalog-disclaimer/​

Unless specifically agreed to in writing, KYOCERA AVX has not tested or certified its products, services or deliverables for use in high risk applications including medical life support, medical device, direct physical patient contact, water treatment, nuclear facilities, weapon systems, mass and air transportation control, flammable environments, or any other potentially life critical uses. Customer understands and agrees that KYOCERA AVX makes no assurances that the products, services or deliverables are suitable for any high-risk uses. Under no circumstances does KYOCERA AVX warrant or guarantee suitability for any customer design or manufacturing process.​

I don’t believe anything I’ve ever worked on fits these criteria, but I’ve interviewed for jobs that involved medical equipment or products that could potentially be dangerous in case of failure. Including the possibility of something falling from the sky if the product failed.

 

[supton]

Those applications have some pretty stringent requirements, lots of oversight, planning, reviews, checklists, well thought out requirements, and regulations to be met. Followed by testing and qualifications before it goes out the door. Then, the more important it is, the more likely it has built in test capabilities (self for automobile, although I think military and aviation it’s usually manually controlled?) and methods of routinely checking that the equipment is operating as it should. Large teams, multi-disciplinary teams, and much overlap making sure nothing gets overlooked.

I get lucky, most my stuff stays in house, the stuff that gets sold isn’t going to the general public (lab/bench stuff).

 

[wpod]

I believe people need to get paid for their skill level, job performance and a few other parameters. I know my doctor , attorney and pilot friends are much more skilled than I and perform much higher skilled work than what I am capable of doing.

 

[Cujet]

Snip,,,

But if you start right now, in 20 - 30 years, you’ll be near the top of the pay scale.

So, who is willing to take on the uncertainty? The risk?

That uncertainty and risk you mention so gently above, is a BIG DEAL. People have absolutely zero concept of this.

The good news is that 80% of student pilots wash out of flight school, so those folks are unlikely to be stripped of their fortunes and a lifetime of dedicated effort. Those that succeed are subject to so many risks, it is a bit like gambling. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don‘t.

The fact is, there are too many risks to list. Here is one most people ignore. What if a fellow crewmember decides you are to be targeted for something about you (I won’t list the reason but you can guess) and the management feels the same way due to the culture of the day?

 

[John105]

I've long said that the career ladder for engineering is a stepstool. Junior, regular, senior, maybe 5 years to climb each rung? After that it's management. There's an attempt to rectify that, giving more titles (and presumably pay) but... I suspect it's more about titles than pay.

You may be right on pay, the $46k I started out at inflates to $80k today. I make more but not a multiple, and that's after 20+ years and rising to manager's pay. At least I get to sit in front of a computer, and better yet, nothing falls out of the sky when I screw up. Low risk, low consequence, thus the pay matches.

hehe I'm older for sure because in my day $38k was really excellent hahahaha And my tuition reimbursement was 100% and non-taxable--I remember paperwork and in the example, they stated an MBA for an engineer would be taxable as the MBA was not related to an engineer's job function. But the co. didn't care and would submit the form as non-taxable. The only exclusion in the 90's was law degrees--the co didn't reimburse for legal studies unless the employee worked in the legal department. Otherwise any coursework was approved and 100%. I remember going to the book store and saying aw, shucks, no brand new books, only used (because they are 100% so I preferred new to used).

You touch on some very interesting things...that is how the structure goes, title, and then the concept of pay.

My buddy in IT makes a lot of money. He got an 8% raise and a 10% raise the year before. I told him I've only gotten 8% one time, in 1996. I mean as a annual increase, new title yes, more than that. I notice these way above average increases do not make him happy, he still looks for a new job regularly.

I'll share it, who cares. My raise was 4%. That doesn't even keep up with inflation. My other buddy said his former co. gave .25% to some people, wth. I got a compensation letter on Friday, which read, you are eligible for a bonus and x% is the target rate. Therefore your bonus is x, to be paid 3/31. I noticed x, was double x%. So my management awarded me a little more than double the target rate. Someone else got less than the target. I hate to admit it, but that keeps me motivated, that somehow, someone recognizes my contribution. The 4% actually makes me unhappy as I know I have less buying power than last year. It's all good.