Pilot chews out ATC over repeated go-arounds at SFO

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So - the regional control talks to aircraft, but the airport tower gives the orders on go-arounds?
Pilot: “Can we make sure we don’t put anyone on the runway anymore?”​
Controller: “We’re wondering the same thing, we’ve got a few over here, and we’ll make sure you land this time.”​
Pilot: “Yeah, definitely file a report for this, this is just unacceptable.”​
Controller: “We are 100% in agreeance with you, sorry for it.”​
Pilot: “Thanks. I know it’s not your fault, but unfortunately you’re the only one I’ve got to vent to. He told me to talk to you guys, that’s the funny part.”​
Controller: “That’s great. Apparently aircraft on the ground have priority over aircraft in the air. Again, just for your information, we’ve had issues with the tower here for a while as far as some of these go arounds, things like that, but I think it’s more fit for an official report because we’re hearing now that they’re trying to blame us for our speeds, but I don’t know what’s wrong with what we did.”​
Pilot: “Yeah, I’ll fill one out for sure. I mean, it’s just unacceptable, two go arounds for the same issue, something’s gotta happen with that.”​
Controller: “I agree with you 100%.”​

 
2 go-arounds is bit too much.

I have tremendous respect for ATC and actually don’t mind the occasional ONE GA when ATC try to squeeze a tight departure out, at least they tried.

I actually get more frustrated when it’s my turn on the ground , holding short of the runway and the Tower could squeeze us out but won’t take a chance in case it causes a GA on final ( single runway operations due to endless runway deconstruction ).

Pilots taking too long to line up ( dry runway ) and roll gets on my nerves ( safety number one on rollout and clearing ). I think most airlines require all checks done before lining up. I have had to do a few slow line up go arounds ( after they accepted the “ are you able immediate take off “ clearance ).

Planes in the air are supposed to have priority.

The Tower tries to squeeze out as many as they can with consideration to spacing ( planes on final ). Approach control assign speed on final to control flow so Tower can get planes off. If spacing is tight, Tower will tell us to “ slow to final approach speed, one departure before your arrival “.

For the aviation nerd, 2 GA’s on the A321 is 2,600 pounds of fuel ( 1,200 kilos ).
 
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I wonder if SFO is still doing runway work. It seemed like they were using the 28’s for arrival and departures. They were not using the 1’s.
 
2 go-arounds is bit too much.

I have tremendous respect for ATC and actually don’t mind the occasional ONE GA when ATC try to squeeze a tight departure out, at least they tried.

I actually get more frustrated when it’s my turn on the ground , holding short of the runway and the Tower could squeeze us out but won’t take a chance in case it causes a GA on final ( single runway operations due to endless runway deconstruction ).

Pilots taking too long to line up ( dry runway ) and roll gets on my nerves ( safety number one on rollout and clearing ). I think most airlines require all checks done before lining up. I have had to do a few slow line up go arounds ( after they accepted the “ are you able immediate take off “ clearance ).

Planes in the air are supposed to have priority.

The Tower tries to squeeze out as many as they can with consideration to spacing ( planes on final ). Approach control assign speed on final to control flow so Tower can get planes off. If spacing is tight, Tower will tell us to “ slow to final approach speed, one departure before your arrival “.

For the aviation nerd, 2 GA’s on the A321 is 2,600 pounds of fuel ( 1,200 kilos ).

How does it work at airports or runway pairs where they're generally assigned one for takeoff and one for landing? Like at LAX? I heard that they pretty much operate one takeoff one landing at SJC.
 
How does it work at airports or runway pairs where they're generally assigned one for takeoff and one for landing? Like at LAX? I heard that they pretty much operate one takeoff one landing at SJC.
The more runways the better ( except for Toronto lol ).

Where I am based, we are down to one runway ( construction ) and things move very slowly when busy.

Just checked the LAX/SFO ATIS ( airport information pilots check ) and they are using all runways for arrivals and departures ( 21:30 pacific time ) but many airports use one for departure and the other for arrival or both for departures and arrivals but runway assignment depends on which way flight is heading.

Haven’t been to LAX in years but we used to land on 24R and take off on 24L with west winds due to where we parked.

Orlando, Florida uses one for take off and the other for landing ( 17L for landing , 17R when winds out of south ) for take off depending where airline gates are located.

Phoenix takes off on one and lands on two other runways.
 
Haven’t been to LAX in years but we used to land on 24R and take off on 24L with west winds due to where we parked.

I never quite understood the numbering at LAX since all 4 runways are exactly parallel. I guess they have to differentiate the pairs?

LAX-Airport-Capacity-Profile-2014.pdf
 
I never quite understood the numbering at LAX since all 4 runways are exactly parallel. I guess they have to differentiate the pairs?

LAX-Airport-Capacity-Profile-2014.pdf

Essentially yes.

2 parallel they do L and R
3 parallel they can do L, C(enter) and R (but not always, MIA for example)
4+ parallel they just start changing the numbers.

ATL has 5 parallel with 3 different “numbers” and no “Centers”.

As an airline pilot, Detroit Metro is my favorite airport layout. 4 parallels, you depart the inners and land the outers, which is not that unusual. But Detroit’s parallels are significantly staggered. So after you land the outers you can taxi back to the gate without ever crossing a runway. Great design, and they actual use it frequently (depending on where you’re parking). Other airports have this in areas too. ATL, DEN, DFW for example. Some will still have you cross the departing runway anyway 🤷🏼‍♂️. Saves time, but I’m more than happy to take the long way. One less opportunity for error.
 
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What really surprised me about this was that there was that there was so much chatter with ATC while still in the air. He's ripping into the tower and taking a long time doing it, and the regional ATC is indulging it.
 
Essentially yes.

2 parallel they do L and R
3 parallel they can do L, C(enter) and R (but not always, MIA for example)
4+ parallel they just start changing the numbers.

ATL has 5 parallel with 3 different “numbers” and no “Centers”.

As an airline pilot, Detroit Metro is my favorite airport layout. 4 parallels, you depart the inners and land the outers, which is not that unusual. But Detroit’s parallels are significantly staggered. So after you land the outers you can taxi back to the gate without ever crossing a runway. Great design, and they actual use it frequently (depending on where you’re parking). Other airports have this in areas too. ATL, DEN, DFW for example. Some will still have you cross the departing runway anyway 🤷🏼‍♂️. Saves time, but I’m more than happy to take the long way. One less opportunity for error.

What type of plane do you currently fly and have flown in the past ?
 
Declare “ min fuel “ ahead of time if pilots feel any delay may result in landing with less than reserve fuel.

Declare a “ fuel emergency” if you expect under existing or expected conditions you will land less than reserve.

Never been so tight that we would not be able to do two unexpected ( good weather ) go arounds and be tight on fuel , even on flights with no alternate IFR flight plans on the Airbus.

Before we start descent, we calculate and brief how much extra fuel we have and mention how many go arounds we could do if not a lot of extra fuel ( no alternate flight plan ).

The only way I could see being CLOSE to minimum fuel on the Airbus ( in good weather at the new destination airport ) would be possibly after diverting from another airport and I would let ATC know ( arrival and Tower ) we are min fuel.

I have never been in a min fuel situation in my life ( except simulator ).

Lowest reserve fuel on board is as low as 1000 kilograms on the A319 and low fuel warning lights come on at 1500.

I am not judging the previous post, just sharing my own thoughts on the Airbus Ops.
 
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