In my last message I wanted to express a very special thanks to like a rock for his complete explanation concerning the use of Havoline in his father in laws Ranger. Also for his comments on Pennzoil! Sorry I did not say this earlier!!
Pennzoil vs Castrol vs Havoline
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You are welcome fish. As fuel tanker man stated I am also not a expert on oil related science but sure have learned much information here of bitog. Good luck with your use of havoline. It will not let you down. It may be the best dino available- but Johnny could have a interesting debate with that.
I trust Havoline and the used oil analysis on it.
I would stand there, close my eyes and randomly mix each quart around, then do "eeny meeny miny moe" and leave with the whatever one was selected. Why? Cause that would take less time than me standing there contemplating my purchase!
The one question I have about Havoline is that its Viscosity Index number is usually a little lower than that of Pennzoil or Castrol. Do the other Havoline numbers, such as Flash Point, make up for that or is the Vixcosity Index number not that important??
Broaden your horizons, or maybe just the places you shop.. K-Mart, Superflo, 1.00 a quart. 4.20 rebate up to 4 cases from Exxon. That makes it 12.00 - 4.20 + .37stamp /12 = .69 a quart. That may explain the 24 quarts in my garage...
Some random thoughts re. this question. I now use Castrol GTX 10w30 after having used Pennzoil in my LT1 350 L Chevy V8. Why did I change? The Pennzoil was breaking down or 'oxidizing' even with 3k OCI. This was causing a reddish -brown deposit on the engine internals. I switched to Mobil 1 10w30 for two oil changes which helped clean the deposits out. Then I went to the Castrol GTX 10w30. I think I originally went with Pennzoil when the Consumer Reports article came out which was based on Chevy 4.3 L V6's in NYC taxi cabs. Rmember that article? Of course, it also highly rated the Fram oil filter. Thank goodness I didn't jump on that.
I remember two articles from Consumer's that discussed oil. In the first, published in April 1987, Consumer's tested oil by heating it and then running it through a diesel fuel injector to check breakdown from heat and shear, respectively. Mobil 1 kept its viscosity. Castrol GTX was a close second and everything else was a distant third. I specifically remember that Mobil regular 5w30 and Havoline 5w30 broke down to something like a 10w substance after testing. Consumer's also tested oil filters (I cannot remember their method). Fram was top rated, Lee regular (what ever happened to those?) was a close second with Purolator, AC and Motorcraft rated 'average' or below. Obviously, things have changed at bit since then. In 1992, Consumer's ran a different article, testing oil in 'real world' circumstances. The authors concluded that oil had improved a lot since 1987 (it had) and it really didn't matter what kind was used, as long as it was rated SH (the standard for 1992) and 3000 to 4000 mile OCIs were done. They also tested additives such as Slick 50 and concluded that, at best, these things did nothing and at worst, possibly gummed up the engine and caused damage. It's kind of interesting that, with the exception of their review of Fram filters, their conclusions are sort of close to the advise found on this site 13 years later.
In my Northstar, it will be Havoline from here on out. I say this for two reasons, neither of which may mean a thing in any other engine. Before I write this, I must say that there is nothing wrong with Pennzoil, I have it in my 6.0 Vortec (10W-30) and it works very well. If Havoline is not available, I would use the Penz in any GM truck engine that I own (3). The Northstar had two incidents on Pennzoil which leads me to chose the Havoline. First incident, back in July, 10w30 GF4/SM Penz, (not platinum) ran up to Pgh and sat in traffic, A/C on 88 deg. ambient...my temp gauge starts to climb. The cooling system of a N* is it's achilles heal, so this caused great concern. 2nd incident 2 weeks later (car sat for two weeks in garage and was not started) valve clatter at startup! This was the last straw and the Penz came out immediately and the 10w30 Havoline (not synthetic) went in. Two weeks pass, car not started, started up with NO valve clatter (all 32 of them suckers were quiet)ran up to PGH again (150 miles one way) this time 93 deg. ambient, you BET the A/C was on, same traffic, and the temp gauge stayed rock solid, never climbed a mm. It's Havoline for my money, in my Northstar, from here on out. 10.8 ctS @ 100C.
hey Johnny what brand filter ?
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What year is that 350 engine? Seldom use at one point or the amount of years that have lapsed with little engine use could explain that reddish-brown 'rust" color. LC would fix that... stop interior rust. It's sold here. I seriously doubt Pennzoil caused the reddish brown by itself. Moly in the Pennzoil that's introduced to rust or moisture may have caused that.... I dunno! The Mobil removed it because it has no moly & the leftover deposits were washed out. Moisture got in there somehow... maybe a antifreeze leak at one time - then the engine sat thru various weather conditions... who knows? Was it the Pennzoil?.... No! There was something else in that engine too.
AC Delco Duraguard PF61 - both times.
Hum, and here I thought it was the oil burning.
It's kind of a double edged sword. The first thing most people notice, and the one that gets the most press, is the oil CONSUMPTION. However, when you finally realize that the engine will run for 300,000 mile using oil like that, you soon forget about it and move on. In fact, if you want to reduce the oil consumption, you just go out and beat the crap out of the engine, and you're OK again. Two or three thing cause "high" oil consumption in a N*, poor quality VI additives in the oil (see "SJ"), driving the car like an old lady, and manufacturing tolerances (see "varies greatly from engine to engine").
Once you get all that figured out, you find out that there is a great bias against using Dexcool. This is caused mostly by poor maintenance and the insistance of some to put "green stuff" into a late model N*. Both really BAD ideas. But this is the one that will kill the engine, not oil consumption, so in my book that classifies it as the Achilles Heal.
My dad worked construction all ovet the place putting a lot of miles on trucks over the years. He always used Pennzoil or Havoline. I have done the same. Except for about a 100,000 mile period, when I started using GTX, maybe it was advertising that made me do this. They are all good oils. Havoline is best because of the price. And since the Chevron/Texaco merger they are even better. Recently I hvae been trying the TropArtic as well.
Yeah, I pretty much already picked all of that up offline (offline actually meaning not using the internet, for those who use the terms offline and online interchangeably). Especially the amazing bias against Dexcool. One of my managers seems to think it is the Dex that damages engines, cooling systems and gaskets. In actuality, it is poor maintenence (never flushing/dumping ever, etc) and/or crappy gaskets.
As for the oil consumption, the only interesting thing is that I find that initially it will burn more oil if I drive it like I stole it. I haven't driven one long-term. It isn't really a problem, but like I said, it is what the Northstar engines themselves are specifically "known for".
I never had the privilege to own a brand new N*, but I assume that all engines need to be broken in "REASONABLY" to achive their best longevity and performance potential. As some of us talk about beating them, we all have to remember it is not ALWAYS a good idea.
One other thing though before I leave this topic. Regarding oil consumption, this is one engine that never should have the oil level at the full mark unless it is REALLY hot.....as in just shut down after beating a BMW or something. It says this right in the owners manual. "Oil level should be checked hot" but many fill this engine to the full mark when cold. In this design, that forces (more) oil to be scavaged off by the EGR valve and burned in the cylinder...where it can cause stuck rings (a viscious circle, no pun intended) and carbon buildup in the (already tight) combustion chamber. When cold, my engine oil level is ALWAYS at the "ADD" mark. It takes 7.5 quarts of oil with a filter change to get it there, plenty of oil for ANY service I will give it. And this includes second gear runs to redline/cutoff which happens at 80 mph and 6500 rpm!!! Of course at that point you just let off the throttle and let it coast to 40 mph or so, still in 2nd. This gets those rings freed up pretty quickly, as well as knocking the carbon out of the chambers. Yes, unfortunately, the N* is known for high oil consumption, I'd much rather it be known for its ability to move a 6000 lb. automobile at 75 mph all day long while getting 30+ mpg, but watchagonnado.
Is flushing and draining once a year since new poor maintenance? Because that's my regimen, and with Death Cool I still get sludge. Maybe it's the crappy non-blown/non-leaking gaskets I have.
For the record I used to swear by Dex crud until it started mucking up every vehicle I ever saw it in. Maybe somebody's had good luck with it, I haven't.
I've been using G-05 for the last couple of years, no corrosion or sludge.
You don't say what engines you are working with, but you were probably seeing the internal sealant (Bar's Leak) which is factory installed and a key component of the design. This sludging is normal and perfectly harmless. You apparently managed to remove all of it in your G-05 engine. Good luck with your "reverse engineering".
Yeah if you check the repair manuals for some of these cars they tell you that if you flush it you actually have to re-add a mild leak sealer. They recommend just throwing in a few pellets. I myself have had 0 issues with any of the GM cars using Dex-cool, and I couldn't say that I know better than GM and that I should throw in the old stuff.
As for my comments about it burning more oil initially, I didn't mean on a NEW car. I meant for the period of time I was driving a 97 Deville, it initially burned more oil when I drove it hard.
As for my comments about it burning more oil initially, I didn't mean on a NEW car. I meant for the period of time I was driving a 97 Deville, it initially burned more oil when I drove it hard.
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