Pennzoil Ultra Plat. | 3122 mi | 2015 VW GTI 2.0

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

joema

Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
10
Location
Nashville, TN
Dyson oil analysis from first three oil changes of 2015 VW GTI 2.0 liter gasoline turbo engine, DSG transmission, APR stage 1 ECU software, VWR R600 cold air intake. Posted with permission.

Miles/time on 1st oil (factory fill, maybe Castrol Syntec 5W-40): 2889 mi / 6 weeks
Miles/time on 2nd oil (Castrol Syntec 5W-40): 3781 mi / 3 months
Miles/time on 3rd oil (Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-30): 3122 mi / 5 months
Current oil in use: RLI BioSyn 5W30 HD Low Ash

Driving style and ambient environment: Sporty but car is never raced or tracked. City/hwy/trip length: 20% hwy, 80% city, average trip length about 10 miles. Location: U.S. Southeast. Ambient conditions for this interval: winter.

General comments by analyst of last interval on Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-30:

- In general numbers are OK, but fuel dilution is key issue.
- Sheared to essentially SAE20 due to both dilution and other factors
- Nitration of 10 is the max limit; fuel dilution, heat and oil shear threaten to interrupt oil film if it gets worse -- esp. on an extended drain interval.

A recent SAE paper researching high boost turbocharged direct-injected engines found that high torque can cause excessive fuel dilution: http://papers.sae.org/2015-01-0967/ Could that be related?

I forwarded this info to APR and asked (via both phone and email) for a response on the fuel dilution issue. I was curious had they done oil analysis on their MK7 test vehicles, or evaluated any other customer's analysis after extended stage 1 operation. Unfortunately APR never responded.

Previous thread from earlier anaysis: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3552183/Castrol_Syntec_5W40_%7C_3781_mi_#Post3552183

 
This is why many who have TGDI engines use a Xw-40 oil even if a Xw-30 is spec'd. To compensate for the fuel dilution.

My Eco-Boost will be getting 0w-40 GC for the next few OCI's after my current 5w-30 is changed out (Ford originally spec'd these engines for 5w-20 then upped the viscosity to 5w-30. Most people believe this was to compensate for known fuel dilution.)
 
The sheet is too small to read.

Can you post a larger version or use the correct bitog format to post the results.

Thanks.
 
Rand, you can click on the image and then select X2 at the top of the page in the new window..
 
Larger version:

DysonAnalysis2015GTI_3.jpg
 
Yeah, I'd stick w the 5W-40 that's recommended for it even though your wear #'s are fine. 5k OCI is probably enough.
 
Originally Posted By: bigt61
Yeah, I'd stick w the 5W-40 that's recommended for it even though your wear #'s are fine. 5k OCI is probably enough.


The owner's manual recommends either 5W-30 or 5W-40, with no listed preference between them. Dyson stated except for the fuel dilution problem a 5k or 6k OCI would be OK, but because of that I'll keep changing at about 3k miles.
 
Originally Posted By: joema
The owner's manual recommends either 5W-30 or 5W-40, with no listed preference between them.

The owner's manual also calls for an oil meeting VW 502.00 or 504.00 spec, which effectively restricts which 5w-30 oils you can use. Essentially the oil needs to have HT/HS viscosity of at least 3.5 cP. The Pennzoil 5w-30 you used does not, hence my question about why you decided to use it?
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Just curious, but why were you running Pennzoil 5w-30 (non-Euro) in it?


5W-30 because that or -40 are equally recommended in the owner's manual, and this was a winter interval.

The older Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40 was being phased out, and the replacement Platinum Euro 5W-40 was not yet available (it is now). I wanted to try and have analyzed the new gas-to-liquid based oils so used Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-30 with PurePlus.

It was only one interval; I currently plan on continuing to use RLI BioSyn 5W-30 HD Low Ash, provided the next analysis indicates no problems with that.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
The owner's manual also calls for an oil meeting VW 502.00 or 504.00 spec, which effectively restricts which 5w-30 oils you can use. Essentially the oil needs to have HT/HS viscosity of at least 3.5 cP. The Pennzoil 5w-30 you used does not, hence my question about why you decided to use it?


Pennzoil doesn't state what the HT/HS is for Ultra Platinum 5W-30, but (per Dyson) it is probably 3.1 or 3.2. The 3.5 standard is overkill for my application, which allowed trying that for one short interval. There are many other factors involved such as the total oil formula, and since I'm having analysis *and* detailed professional interpretation on every change, the lubrication engineer can keep track of any unfavorable trends and recommend early corrective action.

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
...What's the HT/HS on this RLI oil?

It meets or exceeds 3.5 cP HT/HS.
 
Originally Posted By: joema
The 3.5 standard is overkill for my application, which allowed trying that for one short interval. There are many other factors involved such as the total oil formula, and since I'm having analysis *and* detailed professional interpretation on every change, the lubrication engineer can keep track of any unfavorable trends and recommend early corrective action.

[


You are showing those dumb VW engineers a thing or two, eh?
 
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
...You are showing those dumb VW engineers a thing or two, eh?


No, but one of the world's most experience lubrication engineers could show them a thing or two. The VW engineers are not dumb but any advice that filters to our level via the manual has been filtered, homogenized, and generalized for the mass market. They have no idea of the operational parameters of your individual vehicle and no way to determine that.

In the case of oil issues, what the manufacturer says is without a doubt less authoritative than detailed, professional analysis by a top lubrication engineer on your specific car. It's like the difference between reading general health advice by a doctor vs having a blood test and analysis by the world's most experienced medical scientist. The doctor writing that magazine article has no idea about your specific situation. It is informed but ultimately blind recommendations. He doesn't know who you are or anything about your situation and history. All he can do in that article is give general advice based on overall trends.

By contrast a blood test and professional interpretation considers your exact situation. It's similar with oil analysis and professional interpretation.
 
Originally Posted By: joema
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
...You are showing those dumb VW engineers a thing or two, eh?


No, but one of the world's most experience lubrication engineers could show them a thing or two. The VW engineers are not dumb but any advice that filters to our level via the manual has been filtered, homogenized, and generalized for the mass market. They have no idea of the operational parameters of your individual vehicle and no way to determine that.

In the case of oil issues, what the manufacturer says is without a doubt less authoritative than detailed, professional analysis by a top lubrication engineer on your specific car. It's like the difference between reading general health advice by a doctor vs having a blood test and analysis by the world's most experienced medical scientist. The doctor writing that magazine article has no idea about your specific situation. It is informed but ultimately blind recommendations. He doesn't know who you are or anything about your situation and history. All he can do in that article is give general advice based on overall trends.

By contrast a blood test and professional interpretation considers your exact situation. It's similar with oil analysis and professional interpretation.

Very good comparison! Getting the specifics regarding ones own situation seems always best! GeneraLIEzations no bueno!
 
Waste of money and oil with such short OCI's, and then paying Dyson for the analysis. It's your money though.
 
Originally Posted By: Finklejag
Waste of money and oil with such short OCI's, and then paying Dyson for the analysis. It's your money though.


It's BITOG, people have oil habits, then look for reasoning to justify them. Hence the doctor analogy.
 
Considering this is a GF5 oil in a modified direct injected VW, the viscosity held up well IMO. Some WRX DIT's with reflashes are showing uoa viscosity as a very low 20 grade. Both stock and modified WRX's are showing high fuel dilution.

You can let APR know, but the tune is probably a little rich for safety (post on a forum that APR checks or advertises on. VW Vortex?). Too bad that APR doesn't offer custom tunability like the Cobb AccessPort. With the AccessPort, you can pay an additional ~$2-300 for a custom tune and a protuner usually dials back on the fuel and improves hp and torque over the standard reflash. Too bad APR doesn't offer this feature.

Get used to the fuel dilution.

19.gif
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

T
Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20, 8.5k kms; 2015 Subaru WRX 95k kms
Replies
8
Views
506
fantastic
O
2023 Mazda CX-50 2.5S 36.3k mi; Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 9.8k mi
2
Replies
34
Views
2K
thetricky
H
2015 Tacoma 2TRFE 237k mi; Pennzoil Platinum 0w20 4.7k mil, with a mobil 1 filter
Replies
7
Views
1K
Oliveoil2
O
2023 Mazda CX-50 2.5S 26.5k mi; Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 9.8k mi
2
Replies
26
Views
4K
Tshane3000
D
Pennzoil Ultra 5W-20/0W-40 mix, 4K miles, '22 F-250 7.3L gas
Replies
5
Views
2K
doyall
Back
Top Bottom