Partially crushed/collapsed cartridge filter auto Xtra 51212 11k mi

[qvalff8]

I'm back after another filter change, my two previous threads are

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/used-premium-guard-pg5250-10-500-miles.388185/post-7045807

And

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...rtridge-filters-for-a-2000-vw-eurovan.388296/

What could cause this partial collapse/crushing? Bad filter/batch? Run too long? Used up all The filter capacity so Delta p got too high?

This 2000 Eurovan has 266K on it, 11k on the filter. I'm pretty sure I seated the used filter fully and firmly enough a year ago, but there's a small chance this was installer error. I've seen this level of crushing 3-4 times with this vehicle, and I really want to get to the bottom of why it happens and how to prevent it.

Thanks!

 

[Jetronic]

the filter is saturated

 

[Gravity]

The 2000 Volkswagen maintenance schedule says to change the oil and filter every 5000 miles for v6 every 10,000 miles for vr6. Maybe lower the oil change interval see if that remedies the problem

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Installing a Polish filter in bare feet. This.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Speaking seriously now, If the media had evidenced a radius at the pleat bend(s), I would say moisture in the oil from excessive idling and or short one-way trips. But here, the distortion may be from torsion on removal - or at the time of installation. What are your thoughts on "installation error". Having not installed cartridges on this engine I can't speak to specifics. Would any sort of greasing or pre-lubing end surfaces possibly prevent twisting the cartridge?

- Arco

 

[qvalff8]

Filter being saturated meaning plugged with particles etc? that the grams of filter capacity has been exceeded?

My understanding was 5k for the first interval and 10k after that. There was only ever the vr6 in the USA after 1997, though it had an inline 5 in 93 and 95.

Regarding installer error, I'll have to check how the next one comes out. The OEM style filters usually have a felt seal at the top and these have rubber, so preoiling that surface might have helped. I didn't do that when I reinstalled yesterday, but we'll find out in a year

I'm also unsure how to read the date code. 121311 could have been 13 years old when I installed. Europeans usually use DDMMYY instead of our MMDDYY. Or maybe year is 21 and 311 is the day of the year? in any case, the two Polish autoxtra filters were slightly different since the new one has that plastic inner support core.

The top cap was also deformed more than slightly, with 3 divots around the top and it no longer being planar. I'll take more pictures before I cut it apart.

Regarding my attire, I was also shirtless in board shorts; hot day should I have worn my Crocs for safety?

 

[ZeeOSix]

I'm also unsure how to read the date code. 121311 could have been 13 years old when I installed. Europeans usually use DDMMYY instead of our MMDDYY. Or maybe year is 21 and 311 is the day of the year?

Could be similar to a Fram style date code where the string 2131 is the 131st day of 2022.

 

[TC]

"Poland," so this would appear to be a Wix made euro filter, and likely a lesser Wix Pro-Tec "jobber" filter for garages since it's labeled Auto Xtra.

It's certainly not uncommon to see squirming and separation in the pleats (as an example, I just saw "20 year old Purolator L10241" on this site), but your separation seems a bit more enthusiastic and localized than most. But at least the media didn't tear (I think), so the filter never ceased successfully doing its job.

I'd simply try a different brand of filter and see if that resolves the problem, and also use a "standard" or "premium" filter. The jobber filters often have a lesser media (higher micron rating) and sometimes thinner or less robust medias, per filter deconstruction on this site. Supposedly the jobber Casites sometimes had a visibly lesser quality media than their sister "premium" Hastings media, for example. In theory the more media area in a filter (square inches), the less likely one will see pleat separation, and premium filters are less likely to have minimal area. One poster on this board believes that OEM type filters were less likely to separate pleats in German engines, so perhaps you might try a Mann, Mahle or Hengst filter. Also confirm you're using the correct viscosity oil for your climate.

 

[f355spider]

"Poland," so this would appear to be a Wix made euro filter, and likely a lesser Wix Pro-Tec "jobber" filter for garages since it's labeled Auto Xtra.

It's certainly not uncommon to see squirming and separation in the pleats (as an example, I just saw "20 year old Purolator L10241" on this site), but your separation seems a bit more enthusiastic and localized than most. But at least the media didn't tear (I think), so the filter never ceased successfully doing its job.

I'd simply try a different brand of filter and see if that resolves the problem, and also use a "standard" or "premium" filter. The jobber filters often have a lesser media (higher micron rating) and sometimes thinner or less robust medias, per filter deconstruction on this site. Supposedly the jobber Casites sometimes had a visibly lesser quality media than their sister "premium" Hastings media, for example. In theory the more media area in a filter (square inches), the less likely one will see pleat separation, and premium filters are less likely to have minimal area. One poster on this board believes that OEM type filters were less likely to separate pleats in German engines, so perhaps you might try a Mann, Mahle or Hengst filter. Also confirm you're using the correct viscosity oil for your climate.

Agree. If the OP wants to avoid this in the future, or at least eliminate the filter as the cause, just use Mann, Mahle or Hengst.

 

[TC]

See "Used Premium Guard PG5250, 10,500 Miles" thread in this forum for a used oil filter that did not go Charlie Sheen or Rosanne Barr in a 2000 Eurovan. So #PG5250 filters seem to do OK in your type of engine, although even this one showed some pleat separation, albeit reasonable. Rock Auto sells these. I wonder if there's something about the Eurovan filter/housing design that tends to separate pleats? My similar old Range Rover cartridges will sometimes twist while in use, but they don't separate pleats. You might pose the question in a Eurovan forum.

Also see "Carquest R85212 V MicroGard MGL51212: A Comparison - New" thread in this forum...because reasons...or something.

 

[qvalff8]

That 10.5k Mile premium guard thread is my thread/car at the last filter change a year ago. The carquest thread is interesting for two reasons: firstly my two different auto extra filters have and didn't have the internal half cage. Perhaps they added that cage into the design between 2013 and 2018. Secondly date code reasons: the microgard filter has the number 042418 on it twice in a thread from August 2018. My old filter date code suggests 2011 (unless this polish factory uses frams date coding like Z06 suggested). So I'm blaming my partial collapse on me for having installed a 13 year old filter a year ago.

I left the filter draining but didn't touch it today, maybe I'll cut it up tomorrow. I'll also test the media integrity by pushing into 10-15 of the pleats with the dull end of a spoon.

 

[qvalff8]

I forgot to add, I've run m1 0w-40 fs in this car for the last 150k miles. The last two oci with the SP variant

 

[TC]

"So I'm blaming my partial collapse on me for having installed a 13 year old filter a year ago."

Personally I wouldn't agree with that. Filters don't have use-by or expiration dates, and I've used 20 year old filters with no consequences, they worked fine. Rubber anti-drainback valves and such in spin-on filters can stiffen over time, but unless compromised by moisture, cartridge filter medias are still robust after years of storage. But I live in the southwest and can't vouch for a filter stored for many years in say, rainy Seattle. But I suspect the media would reveal that, like a yellowed and "crunchy" sheet of paper that's been sitting in your garage for years absorbing moisture in the air.

Pinned at the top of this section is a date code interpreter which could be helpful. Three years which may be of relevance here:

-2013: Mann+Hummel acquired Purolator
-2014: Carquest switched from Wix to Mann+Hummel as their supplier
-2016: Mann+Hummel acquired Wix

Your 121311 date code is indeed Wix, December 13, 2011, Gostyn plant, Poland, a souce of many Wix euro filters including for my old Range Rover.. Wix manufacturered Auto Xtra filters.

I'm curious if a spoon or piece of cardstock will reveal tears in the media. I'm gonna say no. Because optimism!

The 0w-40 oil is of course fine. Just wanted to ensure you weren't using a bizzaro thick oil that was battering the media like molasses.

 

[ZeeOSix]

-2014: Carquest switched from Wix to Mann+Hummel as their supplier

Carquest kicked M+H to the curb around 1-1/2 years ago, and many of their oil filters are now Premium Guard Inc (PGI) supplied.

 

[TC]

"So I'm blaming my partial collapse on me for having installed a 13 year old filter a year ago."

I just revisited that "20 year old Purolator L10241 7.5K OCI C&P" thread from a few days ago, and he found no issues with his 20 year old Purolator after driving it for 7,500 miles and disassembling it. Even the rubber components were still pliable.

 

[TC]

I viewed some filter tear-down pages today, and I'm starting to suspect that your pleat separation issue, while not common, is nonetheless more prevalent than I realized. Thread titles below.

"L14670 purolator oil filter 4.0 jeep cherokee 6"

"2 4 1 C&P ph16 fram and Pro-tec 130"

"Purolator Pure One PL14670, 2851 Mi, 6-mo cut open"

 

[qvalff8]

Alright, so no blaming the filters age...

I viewed those 3 threads. These aren't quite as bad as mine, in my opinion. like I said, the filters coming out wavy/deformed/crushed similarly to this is somewhat common for me (3-4 times in 15-20 oil changes over 15 years). If your 4 or 5 crushed filter threads are all that's on a quarter century of bitog threads, maybe there's something wrong with how I'm doing it. Should I run shorter filter intervals? spend more on filters? inspect the oil filter housing more carefully/at all before installing?

I did do the spoon poke test: media integrity was maintained. I partially cut it apart but everything looked exactly the same as the last time I cut apart the media (see link in first post of this thread). There were tiny agglomerations of what I presume is soot particles, but not too many. The media looked quite good(to me), especially for 11k on a cheap filter.

I tried to photograph the deformation/doming of the top cap, though I'm not sure I succeeded. My description is that the top cap of the filter seems to have domed upwards in the middle, or been pushed downwards on the outside. Though not uniformly. There might be three lower areas and they vaguely line up with the more deformed pleats. I dunno. This is looking more like installer error. Sigh. It doesn't seem to have affected its performance but it's probably impossible to tell whether there was an unintended bypass for the pin oil to flow. The rubber seals top and bottom both feel supple and still good.

Filtration media area is still 350-400 in^2, which seems quite a bit higher than modern filter areas (database thread I saw showed more like 200sqin). Maybe that's how they got to 10k mi intervals 25 years ago?

 

[Gravity]

Was this filter giving you start-up rattle like the previous premium guard filter you posted was?

 

[MParr]

I would try a Hengst oil filter.
Change oil at every 5,000 miles or yearly, whichever comes first.

 

[qvalff8]

Was this filter giving you start-up rattle like the previous premium guard filter you posted was?

It didn't rattle for a few thousand miles but then it came back. It's not doing it now (I think, I've only started it once).

Maybe that'll be my signal to change the oil/filter?