If these 3 oil from a given manufacturer cost exactly the same as with say Amsoil why wouldn't you just pick 0w-30? Is there some kind of message other than matching a manufacturer's spec so they can use dyno oil?
Ow-30 vs 5w-30 vs 10w-30
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Depends on what the HTHS is of each but someone might need the higher HTHS that most of the 10w30s have. For most applications the 0w30 represents the best bang for the buck with Amsoil. In this specific example though the Amsoil 0w30 and 10w30 both have an HTHS of 3.1 so it wouldn't apply.
I have questioned that too, but never got a real answer here. The whole HTHS thing is [censored], because if a manufacturer has a typical specs. 10w30 oil api approved. There are 10w30 oils with HTHS down to 3.0. This is where most 0w30 oil and theefore I cannot see that using a 0s, 5w30 could be used instead.
Does 10W30 have higher HTHS than 5W30?
When I was looking at the Mobil1 website 5W30 had 3.1 and 10W30 had 3.0 5W30 was also thicker at high temp. It seems to me 5W30 provides slightly better high speed/high temp protection.
When I was looking at the Mobil1 website 5W30 had 3.1 and 10W30 had 3.0 5W30 was also thicker at high temp. It seems to me 5W30 provides slightly better high speed/high temp protection.
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Mobil 1's 5w30 is slightly better in all the categories 99% of the population will face.
I agree, with the exception of an older turbo engine or supercharged engine where the turbo or supercharger share the oil with the engine, like a 90s turbo eclipse 4g63 or a hi-performance engine running a Vortech blower that uses the engines oil for lube or something like that. In those application I personally would prefer a 10w30 to a 5w30 because of its higher resistance to shear. Especially in the summer time.
Mobil 1's 5w30 is slightly better in all the categories 99% of the population will face.
I agree, with the exception of an older turbo engine or supercharged engine where the turbo or supercharger share the oil with the engine, like a 90s turbo eclipse 4g63 or a hi-performance engine running a Vortech blower that uses the engines oil for lube or something like that. In those application I personally would prefer a 10w30 to a 5w30 because of its higher resistance to shear. Especially in the summer time.
Originally Posted By: dgunay
As far as i know, 10w30 would be more shear stable than the 0w30
For the most part yes however that isn't always the case. We have a few examples like German Castrol 0w30 and redline 0w30 that prove to be very shear stable to the point of zero shear over an oci.
So yes as a rule a 10w30 is usually more shear stable than a 5w or 0w however there are exceptions.
As far as i know, 10w30 would be more shear stable than the 0w30
For the most part yes however that isn't always the case. We have a few examples like German Castrol 0w30 and redline 0w30 that prove to be very shear stable to the point of zero shear over an oci.
So yes as a rule a 10w30 is usually more shear stable than a 5w or 0w however there are exceptions.
My Red Line 0w30 oil HTHS Vis, cP @150°C, ASTM D4741 is 3.1 but if I switch to 5w30 its 3.7. Is that really a big deal?
Originally Posted By: Clevy
dgunay said:
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
If these 3 oil from a given manufacturer cost exactly the same as with say Amsoil why wouldn't you just pick 0w-30? Is there some kind of message other than matching a manufacturer's spec so they can use dyno oil?
there are clear differences in the amsoil xW-30 oils. moving from 0W to 10w the VI drops AND Noack drops too. If you have no use for low temp cranking, IMHO, 10W30 is their strongest oil (lowest Noack in the whole range).
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf
If these 3 oil from a given manufacturer cost exactly the same as with say Amsoil why wouldn't you just pick 0w-30? Is there some kind of message other than matching a manufacturer's spec so they can use dyno oil?
there are clear differences in the amsoil xW-30 oils. moving from 0W to 10w the VI drops AND Noack drops too. If you have no use for low temp cranking, IMHO, 10W30 is their strongest oil (lowest Noack in the whole range).
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf
Don't you cold crank your engine every time you start it no matter what the ambient temperature might be? What's the old saying, no oil can be too thin when starting.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Don't you cold crank your engine every time you start it no matter what the ambient temperature might be? What's the old saying, no oil can be too thin when starting.
There's a difference between the cold cranking and limits of pumpability and a cold start.
However, that's been blurred on BITOG in recent years, with ridiculous focus on single aspects of an oil.
If you are starting anywhere down to -15 to -20C, you are not going to see any real life difference between 0W and 10W anything...oil will flow to the pick-up, the pump will fill the galleries just fine, at exactly the same rate.
Particularly if you look at Amsoil
0W30, KV40 58.2, KV100 10.5
5W30, KV40 59.9, KV100 10.4
10W30, KV40 62.3, KV100 10.4
At starting temps down to -15 to -20C, the 0W30 offers absolutely nothing over the 10W30.
Don't you cold crank your engine every time you start it no matter what the ambient temperature might be? What's the old saying, no oil can be too thin when starting.
There's a difference between the cold cranking and limits of pumpability and a cold start.
However, that's been blurred on BITOG in recent years, with ridiculous focus on single aspects of an oil.
If you are starting anywhere down to -15 to -20C, you are not going to see any real life difference between 0W and 10W anything...oil will flow to the pick-up, the pump will fill the galleries just fine, at exactly the same rate.
Particularly if you look at Amsoil
0W30, KV40 58.2, KV100 10.5
5W30, KV40 59.9, KV100 10.4
10W30, KV40 62.3, KV100 10.4
At starting temps down to -15 to -20C, the 0W30 offers absolutely nothing over the 10W30.
"At starting temps down to -15 to -20C, the 0W30 offers absolutely nothing over the 10W30"
It seem particularly difficult for some people to wrap their heads around this...Especially now with these modern GF-5/SN oils with superior base oil.
It seem particularly difficult for some people to wrap their heads around this...Especially now with these modern GF-5/SN oils with superior base oil.
Originally Posted By: Lex94
"At starting temps down to -15 to -20C, the 0W30 offers absolutely nothing over the 10W30"
It seem particularly difficult for some people to wrap their heads around this...Especially now with these modern GF-5/SN oils with superior base oil.
True that the last year or so it seems around here that we must run 0w20 in Florida.
"At starting temps down to -15 to -20C, the 0W30 offers absolutely nothing over the 10W30"
It seem particularly difficult for some people to wrap their heads around this...Especially now with these modern GF-5/SN oils with superior base oil.
True that the last year or so it seems around here that we must run 0w20 in Florida.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Don't you cold crank your engine every time you start it no matter what the ambient temperature might be? What's the old saying, no oil can be too thin when starting.
There's a difference between the cold cranking and limits of pumpability and a cold start.
However, that's been blurred on BITOG in recent years, with ridiculous focus on single aspects of an oil.
If you are starting anywhere down to -15 to -20C, you are not going to see any real life difference between 0W and 10W anything...oil will flow to the pick-up, the pump will fill the galleries just fine, at exactly the same rate.
Particularly if you look at Amsoil
0W30, KV40 58.2, KV100 10.5
5W30, KV40 59.9, KV100 10.4
10W30, KV40 62.3, KV100 10.4
At starting temps down to -15 to -20C, the 0W30 offers absolutely nothing over the 10W30.
Things start to look a bit different in dynamic viscosity once you go below the freezing temps. however, the general premise is still the same. If the starting temps are above the pumpability limit, the internals are protected the same.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Don't you cold crank your engine every time you start it no matter what the ambient temperature might be? What's the old saying, no oil can be too thin when starting.
There's a difference between the cold cranking and limits of pumpability and a cold start.
However, that's been blurred on BITOG in recent years, with ridiculous focus on single aspects of an oil.
If you are starting anywhere down to -15 to -20C, you are not going to see any real life difference between 0W and 10W anything...oil will flow to the pick-up, the pump will fill the galleries just fine, at exactly the same rate.
Particularly if you look at Amsoil
0W30, KV40 58.2, KV100 10.5
5W30, KV40 59.9, KV100 10.4
10W30, KV40 62.3, KV100 10.4
At starting temps down to -15 to -20C, the 0W30 offers absolutely nothing over the 10W30.
Things start to look a bit different in dynamic viscosity once you go below the freezing temps. however, the general premise is still the same. If the starting temps are above the pumpability limit, the internals are protected the same.
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Originally Posted By: Shannow
At starting temps down to -15 to -20C, the 0W30 offers absolutely nothing over the 10W30.
It would offer easier cranking for the battery
At starting temps down to -15 to -20C, the 0W30 offers absolutely nothing over the 10W30.
It would offer easier cranking for the battery
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Don't you cold crank your engine every time you start it no matter what the ambient temperature might be? What's the old saying, no oil can be too thin when starting.
There's a difference between the cold cranking and limits of pumpability and a cold start.
However, that's been blurred on BITOG in recent years, with ridiculous focus on single aspects of an oil.
If you are starting anywhere down to -15 to -20C, you are not going to see any real life difference between 0W and 10W anything...oil will flow to the pick-up, the pump will fill the galleries just fine, at exactly the same rate.
Particularly if you look at Amsoil
0W30, KV40 58.2, KV100 10.5
5W30, KV40 59.9, KV100 10.4
10W30, KV40 62.3, KV100 10.4
At starting temps down to -15 to -20C, the 0W30 offers absolutely nothing over the 10W30.
So basically all three Mobil 1 30 weights (0w30, 5w30 and 10w30) would flow about the same at 0*F?
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Don't you cold crank your engine every time you start it no matter what the ambient temperature might be? What's the old saying, no oil can be too thin when starting.
There's a difference between the cold cranking and limits of pumpability and a cold start.
However, that's been blurred on BITOG in recent years, with ridiculous focus on single aspects of an oil.
If you are starting anywhere down to -15 to -20C, you are not going to see any real life difference between 0W and 10W anything...oil will flow to the pick-up, the pump will fill the galleries just fine, at exactly the same rate.
Particularly if you look at Amsoil
0W30, KV40 58.2, KV100 10.5
5W30, KV40 59.9, KV100 10.4
10W30, KV40 62.3, KV100 10.4
At starting temps down to -15 to -20C, the 0W30 offers absolutely nothing over the 10W30.
So basically all three Mobil 1 30 weights (0w30, 5w30 and 10w30) would flow about the same at 0*F?
Originally Posted By: pbm
So basically all three Mobil 1 30 weights (0w30, 5w30 and 10w30) would flow about the same at 0*F?
Your oil pump will shift the same amount per rev.
Once the galleries are full, the 10W might have a higher relief flow, but that's of no consequence, the oil's still at the bearings etc.
So basically all three Mobil 1 30 weights (0w30, 5w30 and 10w30) would flow about the same at 0*F?
Your oil pump will shift the same amount per rev.
Once the galleries are full, the 10W might have a higher relief flow, but that's of no consequence, the oil's still at the bearings etc.
"True that the last year or so it seems around here that we must run 0w20 in Florida"
I would argue that a synthetic blend 10w30 is ideal in most all North America applications...Even in engines calling for 0w20*
*I probably need to run-and-hide after that statement
I would argue that a synthetic blend 10w30 is ideal in most all North America applications...Even in engines calling for 0w20*
*I probably need to run-and-hide after that statement
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