Oops...I Installed a remote starter...now I'm reading its bad..

[Ken2]

Schmoe,

We're talking about the best way to warm an engine, not whether or not to warm it. No one is saying to pull out of an icy driveway and immediately drive a highway speed.

The engine warms very, very slowly at idle. During the process of warming up it is subject to the problems detailed in the postings above.It warms more quickly when driven easily. The more quickly the engine can be safely warmed, the longer it'll last.


Ken

 

[Quick_lude]

One thing nobody mentioned yet is the catalytic convertor. It warms up MUCH slower with your car at idle.. so for that 15mins you are polluting the environment unnecessairly.
Personally in the winter if my car is outside, I'll start it, clean it off and go. Yeah so I'm maybe a bit cold doing this but it's better for the car and better for the environment. AND I have heated seats.

[ June 03, 2003, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: Quick_lude ]

 

[CJH]

One other significant consideration...Not too long ago I read that General Motors will be offering remote starters in their new cars that work at a lot longer distance than the existing remote door lock system...Not sure but it might have been with the 2005 model year... On one hand, you might say they wouldnt do this without a lot of testing...but we all know better than that!

 

[Schmoe]

Wow, you Northern Boys sure jumped all over that one. I guess I didn't clarify enough when I made that comment. I DON'T idle for 15 minutes, probably no more than 5, and that's when it's cold outside. But, my definition of Oklahoma Cold is no where near the Northern Cold. OK, I can see it a little clearer from what Ken2 said. I can relate to that. I usually let the car run until I start seeing the temperature guage move up some, not to where it's normal, but move a little. By then, I also know I'll have a little heat in the car to defrost the front and sides.
Yeah, I know you probably just got done laughing at Oklahoma cold. But, it does happen. Catalytic converter, hah. Next time you change your muffler, take a long piece of pipe and rout that thing out!!!!!.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schmoe:
Patman and 3MP, I respect your opinons but I still just can't imagine me ever doing that and Patman, you live "up" there, where it is KA-OLD all the time. I mean, don't you just feel better knowing that your car is all nice and warmed up before you leave?

---

With the huge cooling system in my Firebird, it would take more than 20min of idling in order to get up to temperature, and I'm definitely not going to let it idle that long. There is a new idling bylaw in Toronto now anyways, anyone caught idling their car unnecessarily gets fined $140. It's about time they brought this out! I have a neighbor who idles her car 20min every morning, and doesn't stop doing it even for the first part of spring when it's 40-50F out in the mornings! You should've heard how her Saturn sounded, the engine rattled badly, and it wasn't more than 4-5 years old. She just bought a new Toyota Matrix, we'll see how long this one lasts with her bad habits.

 

[Quick_lude]

quote:

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Originally posted by Schmoe:

Yeah, I know you probably just got done laughing at Oklahoma cold. But, it does happen. Catalytic converter, hah. Next time you change your muffler, take a long piece of pipe and rout that thing out!!!!!.

---

Oklahoma cold. Isn't that an oxymoron?

I would never take of the cat of any car that I own.. the resulting hp gains vs the huge pollution increase is not worth it and downright irresponsible imo. You should see Toronto during one of the smog advisory days... enough to make me advocate stringent pollution laws like the new antiidling law.

 

[pepper32]

In my neck of the woods, everyone idles during the cold months.

 

[VaderSS]

I have a remote start. I bought it based on the experience of my best friend who installed a remote start on his '87 Chevy pickup back in '89.

He has 170k on it, and is on the original engine. It still runs perfectly. He uses the remote for at least 50% of of the starts.

If I lived somewhere where it got extremely cold, I would use the remote start in conjuction with a block heater.

That would shorten the warm-up considerably, and also give you the benefit of the pre-heated cabin and defrosted windows. Best of all worlds...

As for cats, I happen to know that a idle, my car pollutes so little that it would pass a sniffer test with the cats out. However, if you did a dyno sniffer test, one that puts a load on the engine, it would fail miserably.

Removing cats generally gives very slight gains, and those gains are usually offset by the corresponding upward shift in the powerband. As for hollowing them out, I hate that exhaust sound.

 

[chiefsfan]

Try this homeowners who have to park outside: Get a good extension cord, small 1200 to 1500 watt electric heater, (I think they are called milk house heaters and are enclosed in a metal case)and a heavy duty timer. Put the heater level in the floorboard in a metal pan so it does not touch anything in the car. Set the timer to go off 2 hours before you get in the car in the morning. You will be treated to no scraping and a warm interior. I learned this from a friend's dad here in Springfied, MO where the winters are not as severe as the northern US and Canada, but still occasionally get around zero.
The 3.1 in my Monte is slow to warm up the heater. I can't believe you northerners put up with that. I have changed t-stats twice, (not easy) with no difference. Other similar GM cars I am familiar with are much better at warming quickly.
This is a strange topic to cause so much interest in June!

 

[asenna]

In cold weather starting a car and just driving away will harm a car. Even with a block heater. Talk to a muffler shop they replace cracked exhaust manifolds all the time. The car needs a slow warm up.

In realy cold weather you can feel the sluggishness it in the battery and transmission. Use the remote but don't let it idle for 30 minutes. 5 minutes max.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by asenna:
In cold weather starting a car and just driving away will harm a car. Even with a block heater. Talk to a muffler shop they replace cracked exhaust manifolds all the time. The car needs a slow warm up.

---

I've never heard of this before. My father has been starting his cars in cold TO winters and immediately going, even without using the block heaters, for over 45 years, with no problems like that.

 

[dkcase]

quote:

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Originally posted by asenna:
cracked exhaust manifolds

---

I've never heard of cracked exhaust manifolds in the cold..
And I'm trying to picture how warming longer before operating would be different.
Is it supposed that the manifold cracks from differential expansion when hit with the hot gases? Someone might think that more gases produced at a higher RPM might allow a more even warming of the manifold.
Then again... how cold are we talking? Arctic?
Tell us more...

 

[Schmoe]

asenna, I'm with you. But dudes, you can't possibly sit here and tell me that you have felt no noticable difference when you crank and go when it's bitchin' cold outside???????? I mean, car hesitates, cranks up real slow....it just doesn't "feel" like your car. I'm not talking 15 or 30 minute warm ups, just maybe 5, max.

 

[3 Mad Ponchos]

Mmmm, nope, car just goes. Takes a second longer to turn over and get pressure up; that's about it.

Now, my old carby cars were another thing.

On those cars I'd give 'em like a whole minute or so for the idle to stabilize before driving.

You'll never convince me I'm hurting anything; I've had too many cars way past 150k.

I'm sure my winters are nothing like the canucks get but here in the mountains we do spend a couple months in the teens & twenties. I drive the Z28 year-round so it sees it all. Last year I even had to park it outside (not this coming winter though!).

I doubt idling it does any appreciable damage (other than wearing out your oil faster) but I just see it as wasteful since it doesn't do any appreciable good either.

Cheers, 3MP

 

[VaderSS]

quote:

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But dudes, you can't possibly sit here and tell me that you have felt no noticable difference when you crank and go when it's bitchin' cold outside?

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You're right, I notice a huge difference. My car loves the cold. The colder it is, the stronger and more responsive it runs. Coldest temp I've ever started the SS in it was 10F. The car cranked like it was 80, and ran like it had more power, which it did. I let it warm up about 30 seconds and drove off. Felt great...

 

[ShoBoosted]

Letting a car idle for long periods is the WORST thing you can do to your engine...5 minutes would be the maximum time i would ever let a car idle...at idle the RPM`s are too low to pump sufficient amounts of oil to critical parts to prevent premature wear, especially on a lot of todays OverHeadCam engines...

 

[Schmoe]

3mp and vader ss,
Ya'll just messing with me!!!!!

If were talking running, of course it will be more responsive and a little more powerful. It's cold air, density enters the equation. It's like the question: Which is heavier? Hot air or moist air?????? That's why intercoolers are so nice to have. But you honestly think your not damaging your engine when you take off with a cold motor and not warming up????? Look at it this way. You crank, put car in gear and go. What's happening??? my hypothesis: oil is not loose enough to get to the top of the heads yet. The heads, valves and rocker arms are ice cold. If oil even gets there, they are not going to flow down because of the temperature of the metal and don't give me that pour point stuff. I'm talking about cranking and going. Give the car at least, say, 2 miuntes, things are flowing better and more protection.

 

[3 Mad Ponchos]

Nope, no messing.

Crank, fire, wait for pressure gauge to reach normal pressure (less than 10 seconds usually), and go.

Once the oil pressure is stable, the engine can take care of itself.

Cheers, 3MP

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by 3 Mad Ponchos:


I'm sure my winters are nothing like the canucks get but here in the mountains we do spend a couple months in the teens & twenties. I drive the Z28 year-round so it sees it all. Last year I even had to park it outside (not this coming winter though!).

---

Just to keep your oil testing on a level playing field, you should continue to keep it parked outside next winter just like you did the last one, otherwise the other oils will get an unfair advantage over Mobil 1!

 

[3 Mad Ponchos]

Nah, my garage isn't heated. The only advantage is that it doesn't snow indoors.

Cheers, 3MP