Ongoing Civic Woes. Repair failed to correct.

[Kurtatron]

I had posted weeks ago a request for help diagnosing my problematic 2001 Honda Civic. The car stalls and goes into limp mode. 7/8 TIMES in HOT and stop and go TRAFFIC only. We had misdiagnosed the cause as the crank position sensor in the last post. That conclusion was derived from the trouble code “intermittent and erratic crank position sensor readings”.

I replaced the crank position sensor with a new OEM, made in Japan, Denso connector. And today the problem has risen from the depths to haunt me again. Same situation. Stuck in traffic for 30 minutes on a hot Florida afternoon.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS CIVIC?

it is NOT overheating.
it goes into limp mode until it cools down after 30 minutes. After it Has cooled down, the limp mode ends, though the CEL remains on for a day or two longer before disappearing.

I examined the sensor and wiring connector for CORROSION. The sensor and pigtail connector were pristine.

I am at wit’s end! This car is creating a schism between my fiancée and me. Please help me before I am left with not choice but to ditch this car! I am contemplating taking it to a dealership for diagnosis and repair. Your help is appreciated!

I am suspecting a bad ground. Today I cleaned a corroded ground from the engine to the body of the car, and that caused the limp mode to end, but I don’t know if it coincides with the car cooling down or not.
Can I unplug the ground without causing electrical damage? I want to see if I can replicate the limp mode and “erratic CPS” trouble code.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Where is the ECU located? Seems to be something under the hood if it correlates with heat. Any kind of electronic modules under the hood that could cause the DTC seen if going bad and get too hot? Will it do it on a long highway drive (more airflow through engine bay), or just in hot slow moving city traffic?

 

[Graham Piccinini]

It has been a few years since, but I remember having erratic CEL codes and limp modes on both of my 2001 Civic coupes. Unfortunately don't remember the exact CEL codes that came up. Both were automatic. Both were fixed with a new ECT (Engine Coolant Temperature) sensor, even though none of the codes had anything to do with ECT sensor... It was weird, but it worked, thanks to some fella on old Honda forums.

 

[cjolson140]

Did you replace the crankshaft position sensor, or the camshaft position sensor? I had a 2005 civic with a similar problem, and replacing the cam position sensor (under/behind the camshaft pulley) fixed it. I think I had to pull the valve cover and timing belt cover to get access. This was with a d17a1 non-vtec motor.

 

[B1974]

Can I unplug the ground without causing electrical damage? I want to see if I can replicate the limp mode and “erratic CPS” trouble code.

I would leave it connected and wait and see if it faults again, don't disconnect it.

As a side note. I once had a car that would randomly die on me until the engine would cool off without a code. I'd lift the hood and the engine bay would stink of gas. The catalytic converter was plugged.....

 

[joegreen]

I have a vehicle that would randomly shut off when it got hot under the hood and then work again after cooling down for a while. Turns out it was a faulty ignition control module. I believe in asian cars it's called an igniter. I have an 02 accord and the ignitor is in the distributor. I assume your civics ignitor is also in the distributor. You can take the ignitor out and have an auto parts place test it. Just make sure they keep testing the module until it gets hot as that's when it's likely to fail.

 

[LvR]

Fingered a few suspect temperature-related sensors with a large gallon can of cold water and a long spout/hose (kept it around in anticipation) ........................

When the heat thing happens, direct the water at the offending bugger and drain the can on it ......................

 

[atikovi]

Maybe post the code it throws? Or Google it? Not much to go on without knowing that.

 

[Sayjac]

Owned a 01 Civic EX since new, still in service in extended family. Issue reads as similar to one I had. As noted by cjolson it was camshaft position sensor/TDC sensor, not crankshaft sensor. I forget what code was (1361 or 1362) but vehicle went into limp mode when hot, but not always. Requires valve cover and timing belt cover removal. Also great care to make sure bolt holding sensor doesn't drop upon removal and install. Looking back on thread about sensor I used at the time, seems code may have cancelled itself at some point, didn't require reset. This was the Vtec engine.

If you already replaced TDC sensor, Idk.

 

[Dave9]

You need a scan tool capable of live data, to monitor everything in realtime.

 

[JMJNet]

Have you check the Honda forum? as suggested above?

 

[JC1]

I have a vehicle that would randomly shut off when it got hot under the hood and then work again after cooling down for a while. Turns out it was a faulty ignition control module. I believe in asian cars it's called an igniter. I have an 02 accord and the ignitor is in the distributor. I assume your civics ignitor is also in the distributor. You can take the ignitor out and have an auto parts place test it. Just make sure they keep testing the module until it gets hot as that's when it's likely to fail.

I had the same issue on my 83 Toyota Tercel. Once the igniter was replaced issue never came back.

 

[Kurtatron]

Update. Driving the car around this morning, a new problem occurred, but obviously related to a bad ground. I go into pets mart, come out 15 minutes later. The car will not crank, like the starter just died. Car has power. The battery is only 1.5 years old.

I tried beating the hammer the starter with a wrench, nothing. I fiddled around again with the same suspect, rusty ground connection. Rust dust came out of the screw hole.

reinserting the bolt, and the car started right up. I went to Home Depot to get a replacement bolt. I decided to start the car while swapping the bolts. Without the ground strap, the car exhibited the same exact symptoms. New bolt, car started right up.

if the ground was so rusty, it would prevent a starter from starting, perhaps it could also interrupt the sensors and ecu of the engine? I hope so! I will report back if I have another break down.

 

[mattd]

What ground is in question? Chassis to battery??

 

[Kurtatron]

Engine to chassis. Big copper coil connecting engine to chassis.

 

[mattd]

Then yes, could keep the starter from engaging if it was bad. As far as the engine electronics, it’s possible, as some Honda’s use some grounds on the engine from the main harness. However, some also ground directly through the ECM and the ECM usually has its own dedicated grounds, sometimes inside the car (depending on ECM location)

 

[JMJNet]

The importance of grounding.

 

[samven]

Could be this will fix both problems. I have seen bad grounds create issues that had no relationship with the problem. They can put noise and spikes on lines that affect the more sensitive electronics. I had an issue with my truck going up a steep grade that had a cell phone tower at the top right at the roadside. All of a sudden every light on my dash came on and the truck started limping. I nursed it to the top and about half way down the other side everything cleared up like it never happened. No codes, no limping. When I got home I went through everything, hooked up live recording and took it out for a drive. The only thing I could find was excessive ripple from the alternator. I removed and cleaned every ground wire I could find. Even scraped some paint from chassis grounds to be sure they made a good connection. I cant prove anything but the ripple went away and for a bit over a year now the dash light issue and limping never came back.

 

[GMFan]

I had a battery die and leak on me on my Mazda. After a jump start and battery replacement the car ran erratically and acted like it had a vacuum leak for months. The car acted like it was trying not to stall when stopped. To this day I don’t know what caused it, but removing the negative battery terminal for half hour and then reconnecting resolved unexplained electrical gremlins.

Electronics can become possessed and sometimes a reboot is necessary just like a computer.

It’s a simple thing to try.

 

[Graham Piccinini]

I have a vehicle that would randomly shut off when it got hot under the hood and then work again after cooling down for a while. Turns out it was a faulty ignition control module. I believe in asian cars it's called an igniter. I have an 02 accord and the ignitor is in the distributor. I assume your civics ignitor is also in the distributor. You can take the ignitor out and have an auto parts place test it. Just make sure they keep testing the module until it gets hot as that's when it's likely to fail.

I had the same issue on my 83 Toyota Tercel. Once the igniter was replaced issue never came back.

The 2001-2005 Honda Civics have the D17 engine. I believe D17a1 is non-vtec (115hp), and D17a2 is VTEC(127hp). But both have the coil on plug ignition system. No distributor or ignitor, just 4 separate ignition coils, one for every spark plug.