Older Audi 1.8T

[ffbawd]

Hello,

I've got a 99' Audi A4 1.8T with ~114,000 miles. The ECU has been tuned so it pushes twice the boost as a stock car.

I have been using Mobil 1 0w40 for quite some time, changing the oil every 5-7k. The engine consumes some oil, not a quart a month or anything, but just enough to notice.

Lately I have been noticing more engine noise (ticking, rattling). I'm just about due for an oil change and I'm not sure if 0w40 is the way to go.

Is there a more robust alternative for a higher mileage turbo engine? I have read about the new Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 or the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40 solving some less than perfect running issues.

Any suggestions?

 

[addyguy]

I'd go with Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40, or Rotella T Synthetic 5w40. They'll handle the winter, as well...

 

[Audi Junkie]

In your climate, I'd step down to a 5w30. Not that 0w-40 is bad, but 5w-40 is very thick in cold. 0w-40 is a great oil for the 1.8t, a nice UOA is posted on quattroworld.com a few days ago.
If you want to try a quick solvent flush and or a bottle of Auto-Rx, to clean the valve train a bit, that would be fine.

Your ticking is likely a mechanical problem. TB tensioner is the first to come to mind.

You should check-in at quattroworld.com A4 forum and you can get more help than you could want. They even have How-To videos of engine and susupension jobs.

 

[Familyguy]

That's not really "a lot" of miles for the 1.8T if you've fed it a steady diet of M1. 0W-40 is just fine. I used that and 5W-40 in all of my 1.8T and 2.7T applications which were all tuned to various degrees with GIAC ECU fixins. I suspect you're not running anywhwere close to double the factory boost, which I believe is .8bar. Your "chip" is probably closer to 1.0-1.2bar. I have successfully goosed the 1.8T up to about 1.4bar, but that will take a pretty heavy toll on the K03 turbo over time. If you want more than 1.2bar, replace the K03 with a K04 turbo.

As far as using oil, I think it's much more likely that you've got a leak. Check all the pcv plumbing (much of which is located under the intake manifold), the oil lines to the turbo, drips from the rear main, drips from the cam seals, etc.

My recommendation would be to use 5W-40. A couple of friends of mine are running 2.7T S4s with race tunes into the 500hp range. They swear by Rotella Synthetic 5W-40 and/or Rotella Conventional 15w40 which I think are both available cheaply by the jug at Walmart.

 

[Familyguy]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie

Your ticking is likely a mechanical problem. TB tensioner is the first to come to mind.


Oops, I didn't answer that part. I agree with the mechanical issue. Check with whoever changed your timing belt and MAKE SURE they changed the tensioner. The tensioners in the 1996-2001.5 AEB engines were notorious for premature failure and were redesigned. If your timing belt/tensioner/waterpump haven't been changed yet, do it now. I've seen a number of failures over the years due to that tensioner and the cost of an engine replacement in that car at that mileage likely would exceed the value of the car these days.

 

[addyguy]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
In your climate, I'd step down to a 5w30. Not that 0w-40 is bad, but 5w-40 is very thick in cold. 0w-40 is a great oil for the 1.8t, a nice UOA is posted on quattroworld.com a few days ago.
If you want to try a quick solvent flush and or a bottle of Auto-Rx, to clean the valve train a bit, that would be fine.

Your ticking is likely a mechanical problem. TB tensioner is the first to come to mind.

You should check-in at quattroworld.com A4 forum and you can get more help than you could want. They even have How-To videos of engine and susupension jobs.


A 'stepped-up' turbo, and you'd use a 5w30?

Suprised to read that....

 

[bruno]

If you get a rattle during startup it could be the cam chain tensioner - if it goes away in a few seconds no big problem . If it keeps rattling then it may need to be changed . The tensioner for your engine goes for around $200 while the later ones go for $600 !
The variable valve timing system accounts for the difference .

 

[ffbawd]

Thanks for the replies.

Stock boost is around 5-7 psi on the AEB 1.8T models IIRC. Im pushing 10-17psi easily.

I re-did the PCV system a while back, including the plastic hose that cracks under the intake manifold.

I did the timing belt as well, which included:

# Timing Belt
# Updated Tensioner
# Tensioner Roller
# Idler Roller
# Water pump w/gasket & o-rings (Metal Impeller)
# Thermostat with O-ring
# A/C Belt
# P/S Belt
# Alternator Belt
# Camshaft seal
# Crankshaft sea

I havent done the cam chain tensioner though. I should look into it..

It might be worth adding that I am sometimes seeing white smoke at idle, and every now and then a puff of blue/black smoke when I take off. Never smokes at start-up. I'm pretty sure this K03 is on its way out as there is also a lot of wastegate rattle.

Perhaps some Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40, or Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 will help out a bit?

 

[SteveSRT8]

Your right there, that is probably the turbo. If you are really running over 12-15 PSI it's going to blow anyway.

The previously recommended KO4 is perfect for what you're doing.

As for oil, I would like to see the 0W-40 continue. It's a perfect fit for your motor. Any pre-post oiling on this engine?

 

[Familyguy]

Originally Posted By: ffbawd

It might be worth adding that I am sometimes seeing white smoke at idle, and every now and then a puff of blue/black smoke when I take off. Never smokes at start-up. I'm pretty sure this K03 is on its way out as there is also a lot of wastegate rattle.

Perhaps some Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40, or Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 will help out a bit?


Definitely worth adding. Your turbo is on its way out. Great opportunity to swap in a K04 and update your ECU tune. That definitely solves your disappearing oil issue. I've never had to replace a cam chain tensioner so I don't know what it's failure leads to in terms of noise, but I would imagine it could sound as you described.

BTW, the 1.8T with a decent tune and free flowing exhaust should be good for 250-ish HP if you also upgrade the injectors (cheap and easy install). Not bad for a plant that puts out 150hp stock.

Good luck!

 

[ffbawd]

Originally Posted By: Familyguy
Originally Posted By: ffbawd

It might be worth adding that I am sometimes seeing white smoke at idle, and every now and then a puff of blue/black smoke when I take off. Never smokes at start-up. I'm pretty sure this K03 is on its way out as there is also a lot of wastegate rattle.

Perhaps some Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40, or Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 will help out a bit?


Definitely worth adding. Your turbo is on its way out. Great opportunity to swap in a K04 and update your ECU tune. That definitely solves your disappearing oil issue. I've never had to replace a cam chain tensioner so I don't know what it's failure leads to in terms of noise, but I would imagine it could sound as you described.

BTW, the 1.8T with a decent tune and free flowing exhaust should be good for 250-ish HP if you also upgrade the injectors (cheap and easy install). Not bad for a plant that puts out 150hp stock.

Good luck!


I was kind of hoping it was the turbo and not an internal engine problem.. The only problem is its hard to find a K04 for under $900 or so. Also, I've got the exhaust, but I would need to fab up a front mount intercooler if I went with a K04 tune that included injectors.

Still think I should stick with the 0w40? I'm curious to see how it runs on the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck.

 

[Familyguy]

Originally Posted By: ffbawd

I was kind of hoping it was the turbo and not an internal engine problem.. The only problem is its hard to find a K04 for under $900 or so. Also, I've got the exhaust, but I would need to fab up a front mount intercooler if I went with a K04 tune that included injectors.

Still think I should stick with the 0w40? I'm curious to see how it runs on the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck.


It's worth it to spend the extra $$$ and get a K04 from a known-good source. AWE has a decent kit with everything you need, including the ECU tune/injectors/etc. You don't really need a FMIC...it would be nice to have, but not critical. Do what most A4 enthusiasts do and perform the "S4 fender well mod". Cut out the patch of plastic inner fender well on the driver's side just behind the the factory intercooler and cover the hole with free flowing mesh (or screen material from your local hardware store..hehe). You'll still get a bit of heat soak, but not nearly as bad as stock and not as much of a PITA or as expensive as installing a FMIC. Also, invest in a new 710N or aftermarket diverter valve...those are notorious for leaking under higher-than-stock boost levels. If funds are low, you can also drop-in replace a K03 with a K04 and it will work just fine...then do the other upgrades as time/money allows.

Mobil 1 0W-40 is just fine for your application.

 

[Quattro Pete]

What, no one has recommended GC yet?

I had an '01 A4 1.8T with GIAC software. The engine seemed quieter with GC than with Mobil 1 0w-40, but it may have just been my imagination. GC was more stable though, while Mobil 1 0w-40 would always thin out into a 30 grade over the course of a 5K mile OCI.

Of course, it looks like in your case, the noise doesn't have anything to do with oil.

 

[Familyguy]

BTW, when you are ready to change the turbo, do yourself a big favor. There are 3 bolts that fasten the turbo to the exhaust manifold. One or more of them frequently snaps. Get 3 new ones from your local stealer or an outfit like ecstuning in advance. I'd say better than 75% of the time I've had at least one break.

 

[Thorzdad]

Originally Posted By: ffbawd
Lately I have been noticing more engine noise (ticking, rattling). I'm just about due for an oil change and I'm not sure if 0w40 is the way to go.

Is there a more robust alternative for a higher mileage turbo engine? I have read about the new Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 or the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40 solving some less than perfect running issues.

FWIW, I drive an '01 GTI with, basically, the same 1.8t engine. I've run Mobil 1 0w40 in it and felt the engine ran rough. The engine seems a whole lot happier running Syntec 5w40.

 

[wolfc70]

Any rattle at idle and start up is most likely the cam chain tensioner. PassatWorld has an excellent write up on how to change it with out removing both cams and messing with the timing belt. Running higher than stock boost will shorten a k03's life considerably, and smoke is a sure sign the turbo is giving up. 1.8t engines are really not known for oil burning. Now oil sludging on the other hand...

 

[just_me]

Let's back up. Oil is always a trade-off of ability to flow in the cold, vs ability to survive in the hot ( and high speed).

In my opinion, we have begun to err on the side of too thin, and i believe it is for 2 reasons:

1. ecological and regulatory pressure for higher fuel economy
2. concern over catastrophic failure searly in a product's life ( due to cold dry bearings)

Considering that Mobil 1 15W50 flows at -39degC, and that 10W is the historical commendation for arctic military vehicles, i think this is justified.

Your car has a turbo (duh). Turbos present a fairly extreme combination of high speed and high temperatures, both in the impeller bearing and on oil leaving the turbo. Thus, a thicker oil with good HTHS performance is especially durable. That said, you want it to flow well cold.

From the specs, all of them should flow just fine for you. So i'd go for the oil with the best protection at temperature. 0W40 has been reported to shear down fairly quickly, and its hths is margin, IMO.

I'd use high mileage 10W40 - or switch to another 10W40 with ACEA A3 certification.

If you drive easy, none of this matters anyway.

As to your ticking. Its probably either somethign int he TB apparatus, or it could be a lifter. Neither is a concern.

If its oil related, it would be rod knock, at which point you are already SOL. I highly doubt it.

As always, drive easy until the oil is warm.

Grant