I've had a fram ph3614 sitting in my shed out of the wheather for about 6-8 months. My question is can I use this filter on my truck or has the media soaked up moisture from the air? I'm a nut like everyone else here about my cars so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
old oil filters?
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Chuck it, and go to Wal-Mart and blow $2 on an ST, or check out the deals at Auto Zone and Advance Auto on their house brands.
I know everyone here hates fram but can you give me a reason why? Everyone knows someone or has heard of someone with problems but no one has had a prob themself. I've used them on everything from cars and trucks to motorcycles to john deere tractors with no problems.
Nobody here ever claimed there were frequent failures due to the use of Fram. There have been problems reported. Mostly it is a matter of not liking the looks of what is inside and being able to much better for the same price or less. Since you really can't see what is inside when you buy it, I feel they are using my trust in brand names to foist junk off on me. The anti Fram case is weak. The case for Fram is almost non existent.
Pep Boys has Frams on sale at $3 each.
When they're on sale at Farm & Fleet, I can get AC Delco's for my Malibu for the same price. Actually, the last time it was $2.99 but what's a penny between friends...
I have nothing specific against Fram, but if I'm going to use something other than the OEM part, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect it to cost less than the OEM part does -- why go non-OEM when it costs you the same as OEM parts?
so is that a no on using my old filter?
The oil filter should be fine to use.
ok, I'll bite, how about a Wix or OEM filter?
They are both local in my area. I used to use Wix but stopped because they sold the company and I had ?'s about quality. For what its worth I liked the wix but the oem is WAY overpriced. By the way I use Castrol GTX 5w30 at 5k oci.
They are both local in my area. I used to use Wix but stopped because they sold the company and I had ?'s about quality. For what its worth I liked the wix but the oem is WAY overpriced. By the way I use Castrol GTX 5w30 at 5k oci.
6-8 months? Unless your garage is a growing place for mold and mildew and is a tropical area NO PROBLEM !!! I have used filters 6 years old!!
In regards to FRAM, I most certainly understand that a lot of people dis them and avoid them like the plague. However, I have run a 1987 TLC with 15,000 mile oil changes and Mobil One 5w30 oil for app 250,000 miles,and 14 years and YOU guessed it FRAM PH8A oil filters, at the time 2 for 4., then 2 for 5. and now 2 for 6. So we are talking between 17-19 oil filters. I did however change oil a bit sooner when it was new and breaking in. (1000 miles oil and filter change)
Since there is a requirement for 15,000 mile valve adjustments, it has been opened by Toyota dealer mechanics app 16-17 times. Every time the mechanics have remarked at how clean the innards are and how it is almost like new specifications.
I really think the only thing folks have really succeeded in doing is to illustrate the manufacturing quality or lack of it. I CERTAINLY WOULD NOT FAULT anyone, for buying on real and or perceived quality or lack of it!! The question I ask myself however: does a 10 dollar filter perform 5x better than a 2 dollar filter??
From a filtering performance point of view, NO statistical CASE has been made that a so called "better" constructed filter AND incidently better filtering in a longitudinal statistically significant case such as 250,000 miles, filters measurably better in terms of engine wear and or compression etc. Let alone "does a 10 dollar filter perform 5x better than a 2 dollar filter??" The other problem is indeed simple economics. Any oil filter manufacturer, do you think they want you to buy more or LESS of their products
? The other side of this coin is even with overwhelming proof that bypass oil filter systems and preoilers can work in tandem to cut the majority of 58-80% of the wear that is due to the so called "dry start up" and the other 50-60% (of the remaining 42%-20%) of the wear due to being able to filter out the much smaller particle size, VERY few people and %'s buy either or and/or both of them!
Incidently, even on this august board, no one has done an A/B test between filters to see if it makes a real difference in wear elements on an engine. They have certainly done it for oil, i.e.,
http://neptune.spacebears.com/index.html
[ January 09, 2005, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: ruking77 ]
In regards to FRAM, I most certainly understand that a lot of people dis them and avoid them like the plague. However, I have run a 1987 TLC with 15,000 mile oil changes and Mobil One 5w30 oil for app 250,000 miles,and 14 years and YOU guessed it FRAM PH8A oil filters, at the time 2 for 4., then 2 for 5. and now 2 for 6. So we are talking between 17-19 oil filters. I did however change oil a bit sooner when it was new and breaking in. (1000 miles oil and filter change)
Since there is a requirement for 15,000 mile valve adjustments, it has been opened by Toyota dealer mechanics app 16-17 times. Every time the mechanics have remarked at how clean the innards are and how it is almost like new specifications.
I really think the only thing folks have really succeeded in doing is to illustrate the manufacturing quality or lack of it. I CERTAINLY WOULD NOT FAULT anyone, for buying on real and or perceived quality or lack of it!! The question I ask myself however: does a 10 dollar filter perform 5x better than a 2 dollar filter??
From a filtering performance point of view, NO statistical CASE has been made that a so called "better" constructed filter AND incidently better filtering in a longitudinal statistically significant case such as 250,000 miles, filters measurably better in terms of engine wear and or compression etc. Let alone "does a 10 dollar filter perform 5x better than a 2 dollar filter??" The other problem is indeed simple economics. Any oil filter manufacturer, do you think they want you to buy more or LESS of their products
Incidently, even on this august board, no one has done an A/B test between filters to see if it makes a real difference in wear elements on an engine. They have certainly done it for oil, i.e.,
http://neptune.spacebears.com/index.html
[ January 09, 2005, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: ruking77 ]
Whoops, sorry about that. I don't think 6-8 months in a garage/shed will be a problem. I've used filters several years old stored in that manner. As long as the box isn't damaged, I think it's a pretty safe bet that the filter isn't either.
I have cut open a Fram that was sitting in a nice low humidity California garage for several months and found a light coating of rust in it.
I suspect the same filter in a Virginia garage would have had more rust.
If you take the time too look, you can find several people who have had problems with Fram filters. Leaky ADBVs are the most common problem. There have also been several cases of people cutting Frams open to find out that the filter element had a hole or a bad seam. Those are failures.
Put me down for several Frams with leaky ADBVs, and one new unused element with an open joint because the end cap wasn't glued on
Why not just buy a Purolator Premium Plus for $3 at Pep Boys instead of the poorly-constructed Fram for the same money?quote:
Originally posted by opus1:
Pep Boys has Frams on sale at $3 each.
When they're on sale at Farm & Fleet, I can get AC Delco's for my Malibu for the same price. Actually, the last time it was $2.99 but what's a penny between friends...
I have nothing specific against Fram, but if I'm going to use something other than the OEM part, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect it to cost less than the OEM part does -- why go non-OEM when it costs you the same as OEM parts?
Doubtfull any significant amount of moisture* has contaminated the filter element unless the filter, itself, was submerged. If it's still in its box, it's doubly good to go. (Notice how the rabid Fram bashers jump on any excuse to indulge their favorite passtime?
*Whatever airborn moisture content has permeated the filter element will be evaporated off as the engine warms to operating temperature. Besides, water is a normal combustion by-product of hydrocarbons and some is inevitably blown past the rings as vapor to contaminate the oil as condensation when the engine cools anyway.
The Fram-in-the-box-on-the-shelf is probably as good today as the day it was bought....which ain't saying much.
Frams caused startup noise in my truck that other filters never caused, I quit using them after reading about that here at BITOG (I tested it on my truck by just swapping out filters). Every brand of filter I have used since then does NOT cause that old startup (valvetrain) noise.
Use it if you want to save the $3, toss it and buy another brand if you want to use a decent filter. The problems with Fram do not always happen to "someone else"....They have been happening for years, most folks just don't realize it......
Frams caused startup noise in my truck that other filters never caused, I quit using them after reading about that here at BITOG (I tested it on my truck by just swapping out filters). Every brand of filter I have used since then does NOT cause that old startup (valvetrain) noise.
Use it if you want to save the $3, toss it and buy another brand if you want to use a decent filter. The problems with Fram do not always happen to "someone else"....They have been happening for years, most folks just don't realize it......
ruking77:
I'll answer a couple questions you raised.
"From a filtering performance point of view, NO statistical CASE has been made that a so called "better" constructed filter AND incidently better filtering in a longitudinal statistically significant case such as 250,000 miles, filters measurably better in terms of engine wear and or compression etc."
First, filter companies haven't the time to do extended wear test on engines. They don't have the engines or test equipment to do this. And it's expensive.
Engine companies test their engines so that they can make sure they last. However, they don't use multiple filter "brands" or cheap v expensive. They use the OEM filter for their tests.
However, if filter "A" has better media, removes particles more efficiently as opposed to filter "B", then it stands to reason that the engine wear over the life of the engine ( all other things being equal) will be better with filter "A".
As a caveat..I do believe Southwest Research Labs in San Antonio Texas did in fact do a SAE type test to determine engine wear as it relates to filters. It was a paid test by one of the car companies. So the car company is the one with the lab results. And they determined a better media does in fact help engine wear. I think this is one of the reasons GM went to a premium media filter on the C5 Corvette. But I can not confirm this, so don't hold my feet to the fire on it.
"Let alone does a 10 dollar filter perform 5x better than a 2 dollar filter??"
See above with relation to standard v more efficient media. The $10 filter generally has more than just better media. Usually better ADBV and higher burst and collapse.
And it's really the consumers choice as to what level of "protection" they want for their engine. Filter companies build a heck of a lot more less expensive filters than the premium ones.
"The other problem is indeed simple economics. Any oil filter manufacturer, do you think they want you to buy more or LESS of their products?"
They are not worried about that. They know a consumer is going to change his/her oil at 3,000 or 6,000 miles or thereabouts. Fact of life.
The only way that filter companies would sell more is if car manufacturers shortened their oil change intervals. Consumers are used to the 3/6,000 mile changes. So that won't change. The only change might come if a car company goes the other way and ups them to 5,000 and 10,000. That would mean filter companies would sell less filters.
So it's not the price of the filter that dictates how often people change their oil. Unless you can quantify that people that pay $10 for their filter try to make it last 5 times longer than the $2 one..
I'll answer a couple questions you raised.
"From a filtering performance point of view, NO statistical CASE has been made that a so called "better" constructed filter AND incidently better filtering in a longitudinal statistically significant case such as 250,000 miles, filters measurably better in terms of engine wear and or compression etc."
First, filter companies haven't the time to do extended wear test on engines. They don't have the engines or test equipment to do this. And it's expensive.
Engine companies test their engines so that they can make sure they last. However, they don't use multiple filter "brands" or cheap v expensive. They use the OEM filter for their tests.
However, if filter "A" has better media, removes particles more efficiently as opposed to filter "B", then it stands to reason that the engine wear over the life of the engine ( all other things being equal) will be better with filter "A".
As a caveat..I do believe Southwest Research Labs in San Antonio Texas did in fact do a SAE type test to determine engine wear as it relates to filters. It was a paid test by one of the car companies. So the car company is the one with the lab results. And they determined a better media does in fact help engine wear. I think this is one of the reasons GM went to a premium media filter on the C5 Corvette. But I can not confirm this, so don't hold my feet to the fire on it.
"Let alone does a 10 dollar filter perform 5x better than a 2 dollar filter??"
See above with relation to standard v more efficient media. The $10 filter generally has more than just better media. Usually better ADBV and higher burst and collapse.
And it's really the consumers choice as to what level of "protection" they want for their engine. Filter companies build a heck of a lot more less expensive filters than the premium ones.
"The other problem is indeed simple economics. Any oil filter manufacturer, do you think they want you to buy more or LESS of their products?"
They are not worried about that. They know a consumer is going to change his/her oil at 3,000 or 6,000 miles or thereabouts. Fact of life.
The only way that filter companies would sell more is if car manufacturers shortened their oil change intervals. Consumers are used to the 3/6,000 mile changes. So that won't change. The only change might come if a car company goes the other way and ups them to 5,000 and 10,000. That would mean filter companies would sell less filters.
So it's not the price of the filter that dictates how often people change their oil. Unless you can quantify that people that pay $10 for their filter try to make it last 5 times longer than the $2 one..
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This makes sense. It's called non-elastic demand. It's like milk in your diet growing up. You aren't going to drink any more of it if it's half the price ..nor are you likely to drink less of it if it doubles. In a competitive environment it can cause troubles for producers who can't track demand well with production (like dairy farmers). Demand doesn't change except via demographics/population. All they have to work on is market share. In the case of milk it's called "variable supply and non elastic demand".
Good point, Filterguy
Hey..at least you liked one of my points..
I cut a used fram double guard filter open. It had half inch diameter hole in the media. The antidrain back was all distorted. It had 4'000 miles on it. I'm just glad it wasn't my car!
I love fram bashing!
I love fram bashing!
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