Oil TEMPERATURE advice requested...

Pennzoil motor oil
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BaseballDude

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Location: Orange County (So Cal)

I'm running a fairly high strung Ford Windsor stroker that has had Valvoline 20w-50 full synthetic most of its life. My running oil temps are in the 212-220F range and the car has a front-mounted, thermostatically controlled oil cooler and remote filter. Idle oil pressure is 38-39 and running psi is mid 50's.

What oil advice can one give to reduce my oil temps to the 180 range? Straight conventional oil? Thinner viscosity will (most likely) lower my idle and operating pressures, accordingly. I realize I need FLOW to keep the bearings cooler, but not at the expense of shear. Where's a good place to start?

Thanks,

-DH
 
One other fact: water temps are set to maintain 180F, but I occasionally see 190F. I realize that water temp will have an impact on engine/oil temps.
 
Water temp as high as 190*F and oil temp as high as 220*F . . . I don't see that as being a problem, but I'll wait and see what the other guys say.

Incidentally, are you running electric fans or the stock water pump mounted fan?
 
Your temperatures are well under control. Those oil temperatures would be perfectly acceptable for long life with a conventional oil. Anything under 230F is good for conventional oil. With synthetic, no sweat (pun intended).

A good xW-30 synthetic might drop your oil temps a little bit, but not much. Unless you have a loosy goosy engine, an xW-30 might be a good choice.

Off the top of my head, am xW-30 at 212F will be about the same actual viscosity as an xW-50 at 240F which is how hot a lot of high strung engine get run.

What kind of running does the engine see and what is driving your quest for 180F?
 
Quote:

Unless you have a loosy goosy engine, an xW-30 might be a good choice.

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I politely disagree. An early generation 351 Windsor high performance built street rod motor needs a thicker oil to fill in the clearances. Those old motors just weren't built to to extreme close tolerances as the motors of today are.
 
Quote:

Quote:

Unless you have a loosy goosy engine, an xW-30 might be a good choice.

Click to expand...


I politely disagree. An early generation 351 Windsor high performance built street rod motor needs a thicker oil to fill in the clearances. Those old motors just weren't built to to extreme close tolerances as the motors of today are.

Click to expand...


Maybe, that's why I put in the loosy goosy comment. We don't have enough info to answer the question.

What tolerances is he running and what oil temps were the engines you mention that wanted the thicker oil running?

The average hot rodder doesn't keep his oil down around 210F when he's running hard.

If he is running 212F, his oil viscosity on xW-30 is about the same as Joe Sixpack's engine with the same engine, xW-50 and no oil cooler running 240F.
 
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XS650, I don't like disagreeing with the guys on the board; as a matter of fact, usually if I disagree I just like to stay quiet about it. But this time, the mere mention of a thin 5w30 going into an old Ford Windsor V8 just makes me cringe. Most of the time I agree with what you say though.
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XS650, I don't like disagreeing with the guys on the board; as a matter of fact, usually if I disagree I just like to stay quiet about it. But this time, the mere mention of a thin 5w30 going into an old Ford Windsor V8 just makes me cringe. Most of the time I agree with what you say though.
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Well thought out differing opinions that get a good discussion going are a big share of what makes this board as good as it is. Don't be shy
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Amsoil series 2000 20W-50, or Motul 300V 15W-50, these oil would make some difference, and the Amsoil is proven to be the best in wear rate
 
I run a highly modified GM 408 Stroker motor. Ran 40 weights and many of my competitors ran 20-50 weights in the same type of engines......be they Fords/LSX engines....that was until I started using Terry Dyson. I now run 10-30 and wear metals dropped significantly and power/reliability is excellent.

I also run a large sump/dual remote filters/oil thermostat and large oil cooler. When I beat on her the oil temps get up to low 210's....running down the highway ( yes she is street legal) oil temps run 180'ish.....oil pressure with the Lingenfelter pump is steady at 70lbs at WOT and drops to 40'ish at idle or in town driving....When I was running the 10-40 weights I did see slightly higher oil temps.

Bottom line for me was using Dyson to dial in the proper oil and viscosity for my engine. I don't feel the oil temps you mention are anything to worry about.....but I am curious of your wear metals.
 
Quote:

Quote:

Unless you have a loosy goosy engine, an xW-30 might be a good choice.

Click to expand...


I politely disagree. An early generation 351 Windsor high performance built street rod motor needs a thicker oil to fill in the clearances. Those old motors just weren't built to to extreme close tolerances as the motors of today are.

Click to expand...


XS650 makes a good point, that is: if he's running a 5w30 and he runs a good oil cooler to keep the oil temps under control and keeps them below 200F, his actual operating viscosity of the oil is going to be just the same as if he were running a 10w40 oil with 230F+ oil temps. And it's preferable to run the thinner oil/lower oil temp combination, that way he can have a thinner oil at startup.
 
Thank you for the inputs thus far. Here is some more valid information for you guys:

I just added fresh crank and rod bearings. Using plastigage, all of the rod clearances are right at .001-.0015. The crank journals vary...a couple are right at .001 while a few others are a little more loose at .002. Overall I'd say the clearances on this motor are on the tighter side. Also installed a new Melling adjustable oil pump and left the bypass spring setting at stock (60psi cold). I did have it cranked in and was getting 73-74 cold, which I felt was too much stress on the distributor gear. So I dropped the pan and backed it off.

The crank bearings that I pulled were beginning to show signs of wear...some copper was showing on 3 of the 5 saddle bearings. This explains why I was gradually losing oil pressure, as hot idle pressure had dipped to 18psi.

The engine is in a street driven Shelby Cobra 427/SC replica (Superformance). It's 'mostly' cruising action, but out in the countryside I let her rip and the car does see a lot of streetlight to streetlight action. Since I'm running drag radials on all four corners, I can hit 2nd gear pretty hard and not lose too much traction.

I always allow the engine to bring itself up to operating temps before I lean on her. It seems that it is possible to run lower oil temps while maintaining good lubrication/flow at all rpms, including start-up. I would just like to unlock that combo without going through 6 oil changes at 9 quarts/OCI (I'm also running a deep Canton pan).
 
I'm suprised that no one has recommended Rotella 15w40. These hot rod motors do much better with high levels of ZDDP.
 
The Rotella is good for guys running flat tappet camshafts and need the ZDDP for proper break-in. Otherwise it makes no sense to run 'diesel oil' in the car full-time. BTW, my camshaft is a roller hydraulic (Comp Cams unit with a lot of lift and duration). Now if the Rotella would drop my oil temps some, then hmmmmm......
 
Quote:

I always allow the engine to bring itself up to operating temps before I lean on her. It seems that it is possible to run lower oil temps while maintaining good lubrication/flow at all rpms, including start-up. I would just like to unlock that combo without going through 6 oil changes at 9 quarts/OCI (I'm also running a deep Canton pan).

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Have you tried getting a used oil analysis? With your oil temps and good care on a good synthetics, you should be a candidate for no more than one oil change per year.

9 qts of synthetic makes the relative price of a used oil analysis look pretty good in your case.
 
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I like the idea of a used oil analysis. So how long should I run what's in there before I take a sample?

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Run it as long as you normally would, then take a sample and get it analyzed. With any luck you will find out you have been changing your oil earlier than necessary.
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Take the sample about a week before you would normally change the oil. The longer you have on the oil, the more accurate your results will be. Not to say you should go overboard or anything, but at least 1.5K miles.

Check into Terry Dyson, he will steer you in the right direction for sure. www.dysonanalysis.com
 
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