Oil Recommendations for 2012 DI Focus

[stranger706]

Originally Posted By: blackman777
Also you might want to avoid Ford air filters and oil filters, since they are not very good. (Actually no OEM filter is much good.) Mobil 1 is the best oil filter.


Do you have any proof of this? Do you know that Purolator makes the oil filters for Ford? Motorcraft oil filters are a cross between the Classic and Pureone. One of the best oil filters available for the money (around $4).

Also, M1 is not "the best" oil filter. It is a good one, yes. But how do you know it is the best? What about the Purolator Synthetic? Or the Fram Ultra? Bosch Distance Plus? All similar construction...

Registered 2 weeks ago and you're already an expert?

If you have a background in the field, then I apoligize.

 

[blackman777]

See the post directly above yours.
And I've been reading through a lot of BITOG's archives to dig-out information. Plus general knowledge I already had after almost a decade on VWvortex, Honda forums. This isn't me. This is me quoting other people & their research.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Let the dealer do it. Great oil. Great filter.

As for the DI deposits, just do an italian tuneup for 20+ minutes every 5,000 miles right before you get the oil changed. That should keep it in check. To this point, nobody has shown less DI deposit issues using a specific oil on engines that do have depsit issues.

Truth be told, there is no evidence showing these Focus DI engines have deposit issues. The EcoBoost engine does, though.


The deposit issue the OP is concerned with are deposits on the intake side of the intake valves caused by crankcase oil vapors coming in contact with the hot valve. Normally, fuel in the intake charge washes these away, but not in a DI engine. So, while
an "Italian Tuneup" could do something for combustion chamber deposits, it won't help with these.

This whole issue may be overblown as it is mostly based on experience with early DI engines, particularly those from German marques. Manufacturers probably have a much better handle on this now, but because it's no more than "probably", I use Pennzoil Ultra in my DI Focus. Can't hurt.


I know what deposits he is concerned with. Even VW recommends an italian tuneup for the intake deposits. And yes, it can clean up the intake valves on a DI engine:

http://www.vwgticlub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5859&start=20

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: skyship
Not sure about Ford in the US, but in the EU their filters are as good as any other ones available....
Air filters: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117009

Oil filters: Amsoil did a test and NONE of the OEM filters performed well. I wouldn't buy any of them. Other tests have shown the best are Bosch, amsoil, mobil 1, and Purolator's PureONE (just that one model; the rest did poorly).


There is no way I would trust a test done by Amsoil, as any manufacturer can select a test that will show their product is best, for example some engine oil companies show results from test machines that are supposed to be for comparing gearbox oils. The other irittating fact is that the efficiency figures quoted for filters are almost always the final (Dirty filter) figure and not the clean filter figure that is of more interest. Product quality control and filter construction are also important.
I doubt very much that Ford is using poor quality filters, but they should offer a choice of oils for the customer to choose from. I don't think that would violate the CAFE regs, as I presume they are based on book figures.

 

[blackman777]

Originally Posted By: skyship
There is no way I would trust a test done by Amsoil, as any manufacturer can select a test that will show their product is best
You're right but it was a simple dirt passage test to see if the oil was cleaner when it exited the filter (and what size particles passed through). It would be hard to "fake it". Amsoil performed about as well as Mobil 1's filter. The Honda, Toyota, Ford filters did poorly. Maybe some other poster can publish tests for OEM oil filters?

BTW if Ford is Purolator, then that's not necessarily a good thing. Other tests have shown Purolator is not a good filter either (except for one specific model: PureOne).
Quote:
I doubt very much that Ford is using poor quality filters...
I would believe it. Ford, Honda, Toyota, all the OEMs benefit from lowcost filters which make the customer happy (low pricetag) but also ensure the engine eventually wears-out & you buy a new one. "Planned obsolescence" is the PC term.

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: skyship
There is no way I would trust a test done by Amsoil, as any manufacturer can select a test that will show their product is best
You're right but it was a simple dirt passage test to see if the oil was cleaner when it exited the filter (and what size particles passed through). It would be hard to "fake it". Amsoil performed about as well as Mobil 1's filter. The Honda, Toyota, Ford filters did poorly. Maybe some other poster can publish tests for OEM oil filters?

BTW if Ford is Purolator, then that's not necessarily a good thing. Other tests have shown Purolator is not a good filter either (except for one specific model: PureOne).
Quote:
I doubt very much that Ford is using poor quality filters...
I would believe it. Ford, Honda, Toyota, all the OEMs benefit from lowcost filters which make the customer happy (low pricetag) but also ensure the engine eventually wears-out & you buy a new one. "Planned obsolescence" is the PC term.


You obviously haven't done enough digging then. Keep digging and try again. Your posts full of misinformation are doing no one any good. You need to start looking at independent tests and not sponsored or biased marketing tests. Your engine is not going to wear out due to an oil filter.

 

[blackman777]

I apologize that I have offended you.

Anyway I've done my research already which shows PureOne, Amsoil, Mobil 1 are better. Amsoil's shown that OEM filters are not very good & don't measure up to AMS or M1.
I've provided links.
Here's some more:
http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/oilfilter/gradesheet.htm


http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/oilfilterstudy.html

 

[tig1]

With my many years of experience I have found that the oil is far more important than the filter one uses. As I have been doing 10K OCIs for decades the filter(I haven't used a Fran OCOD in 20+ years) doesn't change the outcome of engine longivity or how clean it stays very little.

 

[Tucson Five-O]

Some of the points raised here, particularly by Danh have been right on point.

Specifically, my only concern prompting me to carefully consider changing from the MC 5W-20 is the tendency for DI engines to suffer intake valve buildup. All engines have oil vapors due to blowby that are recirculated back into the intake stream through the pcv system.

Port fuel injected engines, as we should all know, if good top-tier gas is used, are able to keep the valve face clean by the detergents in the gas washing across them as the injector sprays past the face through the port and into the combustion chamber.

I have no concerns over sludge, varnish, or buildup in the chamber using Motorcraft oil. It along with any other SN GF-5 oil is more than up to the task over the OCI the Ford IOLM will call for.

To be clear, if the engine was port fuel-injected I would be whistling Dixie while my Ford dealer did the oil changes for free with MC 5W-20 and the great FL-910s threaded-end bypass oil filter.

The Motorcraft oil wouldn't be my preference in that case (PYB would be), but that's splitting hairs.

Concerning warranty issues, I can't say how a API SN GF-5 oil that meets the 945 Ford spec would be an issue.

And for arguments sake, what if the vehicle was no longer in warranty, aka 60,001 miles on it? Would everybody still feel MC is the best choice then?

Yes, there is something to be said about the dealership doing the oil changes along with documentation. Definitely a plus. But as long as I can somehow ensure, to my satisfaction, that they are using the PU, which could admittedly be another can of worms, I can't see any downside.

I do believe that lower volatility oils, unless someone is making an argument that MC is really as low Noack as PU, can't help but to reduce the vapors in the oil stream.

I did have another thought this morning. Does the 2.0 DI engine have a oil vapor separator in the valve cover? If Ford engineered the PCV system to remove the oil vapors from the air stream before they reach the intake valves, aka a factory catch can, then pretty much any oil meeting the specs would be satisfactory.

Maybe if our resident Ford parts expert, bdcardinal, could chime in, that could help convince me that Ford has truly done their homework, seeing that the low fuel dilution values seen in the 2-3 used oil analysis posted here are impressively low for a DI engine.

More food for thought.

Keep the comments coming gentlemen.

Take care,
Gary

 

[Hermann]

Use any SN rated 5w-20 and a decent oil filter every 5K and you will have nothing to worry about.

I know that takes all the fun out of the discussion.

 

[Tucson Five-O]

Yeah, the sad fact is, short of using a boroscope to examine the intake valves, on two 2.0 DI engines, one run long-term with the Motorcraft oil, the other with a known low volatility oil, such as PU, we probably never will know, whether the factory spec oil is sufficient, in keeping the intake valves clean.

And crazy guy that I am, I am going to using the IOLM to dictate the OCI, even if I decide to continue using MC 5w-20.

I want to run some long-term used oil analysis on my oil of choice, including extending the ocis, as appropriate, once the warranty is up.

More reason for me to be comfortable with the oil, seeing that even if I let Ford use their oil, I will probably be looking at 9-10k intervals,with the IOLM, and even longer later.

Gary

 

[electrolover]

I wouldn't follow the olm. If the dealer will change your oil for free at 5k, then just do the 5k. If they will change it at 3k for free, go that route. With a di earlier is better a lot of times.
Have them do ALL of your maintenance so that way if/when you have an issue you will have something to stand on. Read your maintenance manual and be sure to have everything done on time, whether they remind you or not.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: skyship
Not sure about Ford in the US, but in the EU their filters are as good as any other ones available....
Air filters: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117009

Oil filters: Amsoil did a test and NONE of the OEM filters performed well. I wouldn't buy any of them. Other tests have shown the best are Bosch, amsoil, mobil 1, and Purolator's PureONE (just that one model; the rest did poorly).


I don't see any Ford (Motorcraft) filters in that test?

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: skyship
Not sure about Ford in the US, but in the EU their filters are as good as any other ones available....
Air filters: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117009

Oil filters: Amsoil did a test and NONE of the OEM filters performed well. I wouldn't buy any of them. Other tests have shown the best are Bosch, amsoil, mobil 1, and Purolator's PureONE (just that one model; the rest did poorly).


I don't see any Ford (Motorcraft) filters in that test?

True, there were no OEM filters tested.

 

[blackman777]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Air filters: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117009

Oil filters: Amsoil did a test and NONE of the OEM filters performed well. I wouldn't buy any of them. Other tests have shown the best are Bosch, amsoil, mobil 1, and Purolator's PureONE (just that one model; the rest did poorly).
I don't see any Ford (Motorcraft) filters in that test?

No of course not, because dieselplace.com is not amsoil.com. Here's the information you're looking for:

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Air filters: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117009

Oil filters: Amsoil did a test and NONE of the OEM filters performed well. I wouldn't buy any of them. Other tests have shown the best are Bosch, amsoil, mobil 1, and Purolator's PureONE (just that one model; the rest did poorly).
I don't see any Ford (Motorcraft) filters in that test?

No of course not, because dieselplace.com is not amsoil.com. Here's the information you're looking for:

I was speaking in reference to the air filters, as you said to avoid Ford filters, not only Ford oil filters

BTW, in reference to that graph, what I take away is that the Honda filter sucks, and the Toyota filter sucks more. The first four filters listed are all excellent with >94% efficiency. Considering that particles 10um and below have been stated to be small enough to not cause issues by numerous OEM's, I would say the Ford Motorcraft filter with its Silicone ADBV and threaded-end bypass is a bloody bargain.

 

[Tucson Five-O]

Well guys,

I guess even one of my posts, as relatively rare as they are, can't help but go off topic, way off topic.

Back on target, I think I'm going to split the difference and have Ford do my oil changes, but have them use Pennzoil Ultra 5w-20. Staying with the FL-910s filter.

That way I have documented oil changes with an oil approved by Ford, per the manual, even if it's not their syn-blend.

Although I don't believe I would have any problems with the MC oil, I truly believe using a low volatility oil is just erring on the side of caution. If there was an easy way to check on the intake valve buildup, I would be willing to be the BITOG guinea pig and stay with a relatively high volatility oil. But how easy is it to check?

Anyway, I will be having them drain the FF at 5k (about 500 miles from now), and sample the Pennzoil Ultra in 5k, and decide, depending on how things look, specifically fuel dilution (aka flashpoint depression using Blackstone Labs) & viscosity on whether to extend the interval longer.

Again, I am not doubting the ability of MC or any SN oil to keep things clean and varnish free. It is only the intake valve faces that I believe will stay cleaner with low volatility oil.

And if anyone has an oil that they feel is better in this regard than Pennzoil Ultra, then I am all ears.

Thanks,
Gary