been in the engine business for too many years to count if you are changing oil at 3750 use whatever is on sale that is sn/5
Oil for new Subaru FA20
- Thread starter regal55
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Just have Kendall GT-1 shipped to you..... I think Petroleum Service Company is in PA anyway....
I believe all new Subaru cars require a Full Synthetic oil for warranty purposes.
If it was mine, I'd use a nice 0w30 like Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy that has excellent cold pumpability and a HT/HS of 3.0. Most 20 grades have a HT/HS of 2.6-2.75. 3.0 is a nice middle ground.
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30 is another good choice. HT/HS of 3.0 as well.
Quote:
I tend to cruise at a relatively low RPM, sometimes its hard not to find yourself lugging up a hill in too high of a gear.
I would avoid driving like that and cruise up hills @ a higher rpm. My .02.
*The TGMO 0w20 may be fine, but based on the language in the manual and area you drive in, I'd go up a grade.
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30 is another good choice. HT/HS of 3.0 as well.
Quote:
I tend to cruise at a relatively low RPM, sometimes its hard not to find yourself lugging up a hill in too high of a gear.
I would avoid driving like that and cruise up hills @ a higher rpm. My .02.
*The TGMO 0w20 may be fine, but based on the language in the manual and area you drive in, I'd go up a grade.
congrats on the new ride, regal55!
If it were mine, Pennzoil Ultra 5w20 and a longer OCI all the way. 3750M is a little too short for any "synthetic" oil, heck even conventionals. Also why sweat over high Zn, P, Mo? That's just more SAPS to worry about. Trimer moly isn't necessarily "better" it's far more economical as in standard treat rates of dimer and trimer moly should result in equal performance, only with less of the element used with the trimer.
FA20 is a modern engine, and I expect is has nothing but the most precise machining, tight clearances and nitride hardened/micropolished bearing surfaces- a far cry from the rusty iron of the past. No need for HP/race oils!
If it were mine, Pennzoil Ultra 5w20 and a longer OCI all the way. 3750M is a little too short for any "synthetic" oil, heck even conventionals. Also why sweat over high Zn, P, Mo? That's just more SAPS to worry about. Trimer moly isn't necessarily "better" it's far more economical as in standard treat rates of dimer and trimer moly should result in equal performance, only with less of the element used with the trimer.
FA20 is a modern engine, and I expect is has nothing but the most precise machining, tight clearances and nitride hardened/micropolished bearing surfaces- a far cry from the rusty iron of the past. No need for HP/race oils!
The used oil analysis popping up at ft86club.com are showing that 0W-20's are doing very well on hard driven BRZ's and FR-S's.
Use a light 0w30 (low HTHS, thinner KV) if it makes you sleep better at night. But in all likelihood, a 0W-20 or synthetic 5W-20 will probably do very well, and may even be more stable, in this engine.
-Dennis
Use a light 0w30 (low HTHS, thinner KV) if it makes you sleep better at night. But in all likelihood, a 0W-20 or synthetic 5W-20 will probably do very well, and may even be more stable, in this engine.
-Dennis
Industry standard durability is 150K, allowing for normal owner neglect.
200K on the recommended grade with OCD oil changes should be a piece of cake using any twenty grade SN oil.
Subaru knew exactly how hot the oil would get when they recommended 0W-20.
Your PA commute is certainly no more severe than what this engine would see in summer in the Texas hill country, nor what it might see with two large adults and a stuffed trunk on a summer vacation, maybe towing a small pop-up.
Relax, the engine will be fine with the recommended grade of oil.
Now, the head gaskets might be another matter, since it is a Subaru flat four.
No oil can help with that.
200K on the recommended grade with OCD oil changes should be a piece of cake using any twenty grade SN oil.
Subaru knew exactly how hot the oil would get when they recommended 0W-20.
Your PA commute is certainly no more severe than what this engine would see in summer in the Texas hill country, nor what it might see with two large adults and a stuffed trunk on a summer vacation, maybe towing a small pop-up.
Relax, the engine will be fine with the recommended grade of oil.
Now, the head gaskets might be another matter, since it is a Subaru flat four.
No oil can help with that.
Originally Posted By: regal55
I've been logging oil tempes in the 250F range driving the hilly area I live in. It seems this engine is common to have high head oil temps based on other user reports.
With that info would a 0w30 make more sense, maybe the Catterham blend ?
As someone who's been called part of the "thin crowd", I'd be using an HTO-06 rated 30W oil, at a minimum. Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 or Mobil 1 5W30. Honestly, I'd probably be more comfortable with an A3-rated oil at those temps. I wouldn't use a 20W oil, regardless of the warranty issue, but that's just me.
I've been logging oil tempes in the 250F range driving the hilly area I live in. It seems this engine is common to have high head oil temps based on other user reports.
With that info would a 0w30 make more sense, maybe the Catterham blend ?
As someone who's been called part of the "thin crowd", I'd be using an HTO-06 rated 30W oil, at a minimum. Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 or Mobil 1 5W30. Honestly, I'd probably be more comfortable with an A3-rated oil at those temps. I wouldn't use a 20W oil, regardless of the warranty issue, but that's just me.
Originally Posted By: buster
If it was mine, I'd use a nice 0w30 like Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy that has excellent cold pumpability and a HT/HS of 3.0. Most 20 grades have a HT/HS of 2.6-2.75. 3.0 is a nice middle ground.
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30 is another good choice. HT/HS of 3.0 as well.
Quote:
I tend to cruise at a relatively low RPM, sometimes its hard not to find yourself lugging up a hill in too high of a gear.
I would avoid driving like that and cruise up hills @ a higher rpm. My .02.
*The TGMO 0w20 may be fine, but based on the language in the manual and area you drive in, I'd go up a grade.
+1. Lugging the engine can cause the engine to run hotter and can even lead to rod bearings failing pre-maturely.
If it was mine, I'd use a nice 0w30 like Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy that has excellent cold pumpability and a HT/HS of 3.0. Most 20 grades have a HT/HS of 2.6-2.75. 3.0 is a nice middle ground.
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30 is another good choice. HT/HS of 3.0 as well.
Quote:
I tend to cruise at a relatively low RPM, sometimes its hard not to find yourself lugging up a hill in too high of a gear.
I would avoid driving like that and cruise up hills @ a higher rpm. My .02.
*The TGMO 0w20 may be fine, but based on the language in the manual and area you drive in, I'd go up a grade.
+1. Lugging the engine can cause the engine to run hotter and can even lead to rod bearings failing pre-maturely.
I wouldn't run a 20 grade in that engine with those temps either. I'd use Mobil 1 Ow30, warranty or not. You can always run 0W20 in the winter.
As a side note don't lug the engine!
As a side note don't lug the engine!
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Originally Posted By: bluesubie
The used oil analysis popping up at ft86club.com are showing that 0W-20's are doing very well on hard driven BRZ's and FR-S's.
Use a light 0w30 (low HTHS, thinner KV) if it makes you sleep better at night. But in all likelihood, a 0W-20 or synthetic 5W-20 will probably do very well, and may even be more stable, in this engine.
-Dennis
I haven't seen UOA yet without high copper which could be bearings, this engine has offset rods which load the bearings more. Just something to note.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Industry standard durability is 150K, allowing for normal owner neglect.
200K on the recommended grade with OCD oil changes should be a piece of cake using any twenty grade SN oil.
Subaru knew exactly how hot the oil would get when they recommended 0W-20.
Your PA commute is certainly no more severe than what this engine would see in summer in the Texas hill country, nor what it might see with two large adults and a stuffed trunk on a summer vacation, maybe towing a small pop-up.
Relax, the engine will be fine with the recommended grade of oil.
Now, the head gaskets might be another matter, since it is a Subaru flat four.
No oil can help with that.
I'm long out of the breakin period and frequently drive in the power band which is 5k-7.4k rpm. I monitor the oil temps with torque and they are hot. With all the hills and revs I doubt I fall into the typical 150k durability standard, especially if that test was run with 98 Japanese gas with zero ethanol. The engine is 12.5:1 compression which is very high to me.
I know this isn't a turbo boxer but to really get the most of it you have to rev it. That combied with the new rods, the high compression, it probably is as tough on oil as the turbo EJ subaru's. I found that international service manuals call for 5w30.
So I think a 30 weight is probably smart. But can't prove it.
I'm changing the current Walmart Synthetic 5w-20 at 3.5k mi on the oil (8.5k on car) and sending that to blackstone for analysis to start a baseline.
The used oil analysis popping up at ft86club.com are showing that 0W-20's are doing very well on hard driven BRZ's and FR-S's.
Use a light 0w30 (low HTHS, thinner KV) if it makes you sleep better at night. But in all likelihood, a 0W-20 or synthetic 5W-20 will probably do very well, and may even be more stable, in this engine.
-Dennis
I haven't seen UOA yet without high copper which could be bearings, this engine has offset rods which load the bearings more. Just something to note.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Industry standard durability is 150K, allowing for normal owner neglect.
200K on the recommended grade with OCD oil changes should be a piece of cake using any twenty grade SN oil.
Subaru knew exactly how hot the oil would get when they recommended 0W-20.
Your PA commute is certainly no more severe than what this engine would see in summer in the Texas hill country, nor what it might see with two large adults and a stuffed trunk on a summer vacation, maybe towing a small pop-up.
Relax, the engine will be fine with the recommended grade of oil.
Now, the head gaskets might be another matter, since it is a Subaru flat four.
No oil can help with that.
I'm long out of the breakin period and frequently drive in the power band which is 5k-7.4k rpm. I monitor the oil temps with torque and they are hot. With all the hills and revs I doubt I fall into the typical 150k durability standard, especially if that test was run with 98 Japanese gas with zero ethanol. The engine is 12.5:1 compression which is very high to me.
I know this isn't a turbo boxer but to really get the most of it you have to rev it. That combied with the new rods, the high compression, it probably is as tough on oil as the turbo EJ subaru's. I found that international service manuals call for 5w30.
So I think a 30 weight is probably smart. But can't prove it.
I'm changing the current Walmart Synthetic 5w-20 at 3.5k mi on the oil (8.5k on car) and sending that to blackstone for analysis to start a baseline.
Ok, I had a look again at the post started by R L Newb on the FR-S board and do see several used oil analysis with elevated copper (some still showing break-in wear). Unfortunately, most of those are only one off used oil analysis but RL's little trend on the Subaru oil is very good.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13286
Of course, application, application, application. Good point with the International recommendations. The same goes for the FB25 engine.
How are you measuring your oil temps? Aftermarket temp gauge?
-Dennis
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13286
Of course, application, application, application. Good point with the International recommendations. The same goes for the FB25 engine.
How are you measuring your oil temps? Aftermarket temp gauge?
-Dennis
Originally Posted By: regal55
I've been logging oil tempes in the 250F range driving the hilly area I live in. It seems this engine is common to have high head oil temps based on other user reports
Head oil temps? Where is the sensor located? I wouldn't worry at ALL about rod bearings and lugging. Unless it's violent lugging Ign all severely retarded. That engine will never, ever make enough torque at a low enough RPM to make the bearings notice. Consider that there are factory gas engines out there running on 5w30, producing upwards of 300+ft/lbs (500+ft/lbs modified) at as low as 3000rpm, distributed across 4 connecting rods. Now THOSE are crankpin forces, not ~110ft/lbs-MAX at 3000rpm.
I've been logging oil tempes in the 250F range driving the hilly area I live in. It seems this engine is common to have high head oil temps based on other user reports
Head oil temps? Where is the sensor located? I wouldn't worry at ALL about rod bearings and lugging. Unless it's violent lugging Ign all severely retarded. That engine will never, ever make enough torque at a low enough RPM to make the bearings notice. Consider that there are factory gas engines out there running on 5w30, producing upwards of 300+ft/lbs (500+ft/lbs modified) at as low as 3000rpm, distributed across 4 connecting rods. Now THOSE are crankpin forces, not ~110ft/lbs-MAX at 3000rpm.
IDK.
I doubt that Subaru would design an engine that couldn't survive 150K of use.
I'd also doubt that Toyota would offer a badge engineered version of the car if they had doubts about the durability of the engine.
This is intended to be a mainstream car at a moderate price that offers a bit more style and performance than is typical of four cylinder cars at a similar price point.
It's intended to be fun to drive and by all accounts, it is.
Remember that you're not tracking the car, you're driving it on the street.
You aren't using anything close to maximum output for 95% of the hours you put on the engine and every upgrade is followed with a downhill run where very little engine power is used.
Power production wears engines out, not revs.
This is one of the reasons that engines in cars typically last as long as they do.
We really aren't running them all that hard most of the time.
I doubt that Subaru would design an engine that couldn't survive 150K of use.
I'd also doubt that Toyota would offer a badge engineered version of the car if they had doubts about the durability of the engine.
This is intended to be a mainstream car at a moderate price that offers a bit more style and performance than is typical of four cylinder cars at a similar price point.
It's intended to be fun to drive and by all accounts, it is.
Remember that you're not tracking the car, you're driving it on the street.
You aren't using anything close to maximum output for 95% of the hours you put on the engine and every upgrade is followed with a downhill run where very little engine power is used.
Power production wears engines out, not revs.
This is one of the reasons that engines in cars typically last as long as they do.
We really aren't running them all that hard most of the time.
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