I've had good results using using hdeo 15W-40 in the air cooled VW engines. My neighbor has 2 of them and I service 2 more and that is what I use in them. With 2.5 quarts of oil and no filter in stock form, the oil should be changed more often than engines equipped with an oil filter so I believe that a synthetic while better than a dino oil in most cases is kind of an overkill.
Oil for classic air-cooled VW Beetles
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Don't forget how these motors leak oil. If they leak on dino oil, wouldn't they leak more with synthetic?
I have driven my bug over 100,000 miles since I rebuilt the engine myself. I always change the oil at least every 3,000 miles when I adjust the valves. Adjusting the valves on an aircooled VW is just as important as changing the oil.
You don't need a oil pressure gage or a special filter. My car is running just fine as built by the Germans.
I am telling you this as an experienced VW owner. Don't waste your money.
I have driven my bug over 100,000 miles since I rebuilt the engine myself. I always change the oil at least every 3,000 miles when I adjust the valves. Adjusting the valves on an aircooled VW is just as important as changing the oil.
You don't need a oil pressure gage or a special filter. My car is running just fine as built by the Germans.
I am telling you this as an experienced VW owner. Don't waste your money.
homeboymi,
Thanks! I'm about to own my first AC Beetle in over 40 years.
I'm curious to know what oils you use on your '40s, '50's & '60s cars.
Thanks!
Thanks! I'm about to own my first AC Beetle in over 40 years.
I'm curious to know what oils you use on your '40s, '50's & '60s cars.
Thanks!
there might be some truth to synthetics not absorbing and transferring heat as well as conventional
Originally Posted By: Jerry Bransford;1973242
I hate to be the one to tell you this but the harder a differential is used, the less appropriate a synthetic gear lube is.
In fact, hard-core axle manufacturers like Currie now make it a practice to void the warranty of any axle that comes in for warranty repairs if they discover it was filled with a synthetic gear lube. To keep the warranty in effect, they now require in writing that only mineral based gear lubes be used. It has been found that synthetic gear lubes do not extract heat from the ring & pinion gears as well as mineral based gear lubes do. The gears actually run hotter in hard core uses when the gears are bathed in synthetic gear lubes.
Currie is of course not the only axle manufacturer that has made the use of mineral based gear lubes mandatory to keep the warranty in effect.
This is one example of a warranty that requires mineral based gear lubes where it says "Never use any type of synthetic oil, synthetic
blend oil, store brand oil, or Sta-Lube brand oil" in the final paragraph near the bottom of the page at http://www.currieenterprises.com/instruction_sheets/SummitInstructions_adder.pdf
looks like using synthetic diff fluid may void your warranty if your using currie axles.
I remember reading more about this and under hard conditions they were having axle failures when using synthetic. It was not making sense because the outside differential housing was running much cooler with synthetic fluids but they were still having heat failures. well then they realized the cooler temps to the cases was because the oil did not take the heat from the gears and evenly spread the heat.
Originally Posted By: Jerry Bransford;1973242
I hate to be the one to tell you this but the harder a differential is used, the less appropriate a synthetic gear lube is.
In fact, hard-core axle manufacturers like Currie now make it a practice to void the warranty of any axle that comes in for warranty repairs if they discover it was filled with a synthetic gear lube. To keep the warranty in effect, they now require in writing that only mineral based gear lubes be used. It has been found that synthetic gear lubes do not extract heat from the ring & pinion gears as well as mineral based gear lubes do. The gears actually run hotter in hard core uses when the gears are bathed in synthetic gear lubes.
Currie is of course not the only axle manufacturer that has made the use of mineral based gear lubes mandatory to keep the warranty in effect.
This is one example of a warranty that requires mineral based gear lubes where it says "Never use any type of synthetic oil, synthetic
blend oil, store brand oil, or Sta-Lube brand oil" in the final paragraph near the bottom of the page at http://www.currieenterprises.com/instruction_sheets/SummitInstructions_adder.pdf
looks like using synthetic diff fluid may void your warranty if your using currie axles.
I remember reading more about this and under hard conditions they were having axle failures when using synthetic. It was not making sense because the outside differential housing was running much cooler with synthetic fluids but they were still having heat failures. well then they realized the cooler temps to the cases was because the oil did not take the heat from the gears and evenly spread the heat.
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Originally Posted By: MrRPM
there might be some truth to synthetics not absorbing and transferring heat as well as conventional
Originally Posted By: Jerry Bransford;1973242
I hate to be the one to tell you this but the harder a differential is used, the less appropriate a synthetic gear lube is.
In fact, hard-core axle manufacturers like Currie now make it a practice to void the warranty of any axle that comes in for warranty repairs if they discover it was filled with a synthetic gear lube. To keep the warranty in effect, they now require in writing that only mineral based gear lubes be used. It has been found that synthetic gear lubes do not extract heat from the ring & pinion gears as well as mineral based gear lubes do. The gears actually run hotter in hard core uses when the gears are bathed in synthetic gear lubes.
Currie is of course not the only axle manufacturer that has made the use of mineral based gear lubes mandatory to keep the warranty in effect.
This is one example of a warranty that requires mineral based gear lubes where it says "Never use any type of synthetic oil, synthetic
blend oil, store brand oil, or Sta-Lube brand oil" in the final paragraph near the bottom of the page at http://www.currieenterprises.com/instruction_sheets/SummitInstructions_adder.pdf
looks like using synthetic diff fluid may void your warranty if your using currie axles.
I remember reading more about this and under hard conditions they were having axle failures when using synthetic. It was not making sense because the outside differential housing was running much cooler with synthetic fluids but they were still having heat failures. well then they realized the cooler temps to the cases was because the oil did not take the heat from the gears and evenly spread the heat.
I wouldn't conclude anything from this for other applications without further research. In my experience there is ALWAYS more than meets the eye when one looks into it further.
It would be interesting to get an opinion from Red Line Oil (they will give one) or some other synthetic diff' oil formulators like Mobil.
Our own Molekule may also offer some insight.
there might be some truth to synthetics not absorbing and transferring heat as well as conventional
Originally Posted By: Jerry Bransford;1973242
I hate to be the one to tell you this but the harder a differential is used, the less appropriate a synthetic gear lube is.
In fact, hard-core axle manufacturers like Currie now make it a practice to void the warranty of any axle that comes in for warranty repairs if they discover it was filled with a synthetic gear lube. To keep the warranty in effect, they now require in writing that only mineral based gear lubes be used. It has been found that synthetic gear lubes do not extract heat from the ring & pinion gears as well as mineral based gear lubes do. The gears actually run hotter in hard core uses when the gears are bathed in synthetic gear lubes.
Currie is of course not the only axle manufacturer that has made the use of mineral based gear lubes mandatory to keep the warranty in effect.
This is one example of a warranty that requires mineral based gear lubes where it says "Never use any type of synthetic oil, synthetic
blend oil, store brand oil, or Sta-Lube brand oil" in the final paragraph near the bottom of the page at http://www.currieenterprises.com/instruction_sheets/SummitInstructions_adder.pdf
looks like using synthetic diff fluid may void your warranty if your using currie axles.
I remember reading more about this and under hard conditions they were having axle failures when using synthetic. It was not making sense because the outside differential housing was running much cooler with synthetic fluids but they were still having heat failures. well then they realized the cooler temps to the cases was because the oil did not take the heat from the gears and evenly spread the heat.
I wouldn't conclude anything from this for other applications without further research. In my experience there is ALWAYS more than meets the eye when one looks into it further.
It would be interesting to get an opinion from Red Line Oil (they will give one) or some other synthetic diff' oil formulators like Mobil.
Our own Molekule may also offer some insight.
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
We do not sell or use synthetic engine oil for the air-cooled VW as it rejects heat. The air cooled VW depends on the oil to soak up the heat from the head and carry it back to the oil cooler. With the synthetic oil the head temperature goes up and the oil temperature went down.
This is silly and uninformed. All oils transfer heat. Synthetic oils transfer heat a smidgeon better because of the specific heat costant, and generally provide less friction, reducing heat as well.
Here's the reason he's making this left-field statement, to get your attention:
Quote:
I am doing some testing on a new development in the synthetic engine oil that is advertised to pick up heat from the oil and take it to the cooler without viscosity break down. I will let you know in the future if it lives up to its claims."
Get ready for an additive you don't need.
We do not sell or use synthetic engine oil for the air-cooled VW as it rejects heat. The air cooled VW depends on the oil to soak up the heat from the head and carry it back to the oil cooler. With the synthetic oil the head temperature goes up and the oil temperature went down.
This is silly and uninformed. All oils transfer heat. Synthetic oils transfer heat a smidgeon better because of the specific heat costant, and generally provide less friction, reducing heat as well.
Here's the reason he's making this left-field statement, to get your attention:
Quote:
I am doing some testing on a new development in the synthetic engine oil that is advertised to pick up heat from the oil and take it to the cooler without viscosity break down. I will let you know in the future if it lives up to its claims."
Get ready for an additive you don't need.
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Some mechanics believe in old wive's tales.
In the 1970's in Southern California, it was common practice to just take out the thermostat if you lived in a very hot area. I did that a lot in my 1968 Oldsmobile as I spent a lot of time in Death Valley and around Mitchell Caverns in 115 degree+ temperatures.
One mechanic told me that would always overheat the engine. He said it would make the coolant circulate so fast that it could not get cool as it passed through the radiator.
If the warranty said dino oil only, do so. But I would not hold to a verbal recommendation unless there was solid logic to back it up.
In the 1970's in Southern California, it was common practice to just take out the thermostat if you lived in a very hot area. I did that a lot in my 1968 Oldsmobile as I spent a lot of time in Death Valley and around Mitchell Caverns in 115 degree+ temperatures.
One mechanic told me that would always overheat the engine. He said it would make the coolant circulate so fast that it could not get cool as it passed through the radiator.
If the warranty said dino oil only, do so. But I would not hold to a verbal recommendation unless there was solid logic to back it up.
Originally Posted By: vintageant
On a well known VW expert website is the following statement:
"We do not sell or use synthetic engine oil for the air-cooled VW as it rejects heat. The air cooled VW depends on the oil to soak up the heat from the head and carry it back to the oil cooler. With the synthetic oil the head temperature goes up and the oil temperature went down.
I am doing some testing on a new development in the synthetic engine oil that is advertised to pick up heat from the oil and take it to the cooler without viscosity break down. I will let you know in the future if it lives up to its claims."
I'd love to hear BITOGs experts opine on this.
That sounds like What Gene Berg said several years ago before his death
On a well known VW expert website is the following statement:
"We do not sell or use synthetic engine oil for the air-cooled VW as it rejects heat. The air cooled VW depends on the oil to soak up the heat from the head and carry it back to the oil cooler. With the synthetic oil the head temperature goes up and the oil temperature went down.
I am doing some testing on a new development in the synthetic engine oil that is advertised to pick up heat from the oil and take it to the cooler without viscosity break down. I will let you know in the future if it lives up to its claims."
I'd love to hear BITOGs experts opine on this.
That sounds like What Gene Berg said several years ago before his death
Originally Posted By: homeyclaus
The VW master mechanic I did my journeymanship with (ok, ok, over 20 years ago) stated that all VW's up to that time run 20W50.......
Wrong. My beetle's owners manual states 30 weight year round, 20 weight in cold climates. 20W-50 can of course, be used, but 20W-50 was not the "Norm" from the factory. If the engine has been built (or rebuilt)right, without an align bore, 5 or 10W-30 will work just fine, and keep good pressure with a stock, blueprinted pump. I had used 10w-30 even back in the '80's exclusively year round without issues.
The VW master mechanic I did my journeymanship with (ok, ok, over 20 years ago) stated that all VW's up to that time run 20W50.......
Wrong. My beetle's owners manual states 30 weight year round, 20 weight in cold climates. 20W-50 can of course, be used, but 20W-50 was not the "Norm" from the factory. If the engine has been built (or rebuilt)right, without an align bore, 5 or 10W-30 will work just fine, and keep good pressure with a stock, blueprinted pump. I had used 10w-30 even back in the '80's exclusively year round without issues.
Originally Posted By: 46Harry
I've had good results using using hdeo 15W-40 in the air cooled VW engines. My neighbor has 2 of them and I service 2 more and that is what I use in them. With 2.5 quarts of oil and no filter in stock form, the oil should be changed more often than engines equipped with an oil filter so I believe that a synthetic while better than a dino oil in most cases is kind of an overkill.
I have owned many air cooled VWs over the years. All of them were Baja Bugs and dune buggies. Back in the early 80s I ran 30wt and in the heat of the desert 10w40. I just sold my last Baja bug last year and had good results running 15w40 HDEO. 1-2k OCIs max running only the stock screen. A synthetic oil is just a waste in these cars. They tend to leak more oil then anything.
I've had good results using using hdeo 15W-40 in the air cooled VW engines. My neighbor has 2 of them and I service 2 more and that is what I use in them. With 2.5 quarts of oil and no filter in stock form, the oil should be changed more often than engines equipped with an oil filter so I believe that a synthetic while better than a dino oil in most cases is kind of an overkill.
I have owned many air cooled VWs over the years. All of them were Baja Bugs and dune buggies. Back in the early 80s I ran 30wt and in the heat of the desert 10w40. I just sold my last Baja bug last year and had good results running 15w40 HDEO. 1-2k OCIs max running only the stock screen. A synthetic oil is just a waste in these cars. They tend to leak more oil then anything.
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A well built Type1 motor isn't going to leak oil. IMHO.
I've got a 2110cc motor in my '66 Bug; Scat crank/rods, Berg heads, etc. It doesn't leak. It does make good power! I believe I had AMSOIL in it the last time it ran. I'll put Red Line in it next time, probably their 0W30.
Yes, it was Gene Berg that had the strange comments on synthetics and heat. I think I have his technical articles somewhere... maybe I'll dig them up and see if there's more data there.
robert
I've got a 2110cc motor in my '66 Bug; Scat crank/rods, Berg heads, etc. It doesn't leak. It does make good power! I believe I had AMSOIL in it the last time it ran. I'll put Red Line in it next time, probably their 0W30.
Yes, it was Gene Berg that had the strange comments on synthetics and heat. I think I have his technical articles somewhere... maybe I'll dig them up and see if there's more data there.
robert
@ robertcope, I think his articles are still on their website. And quite outdated in the oil sense of things IMHO. Well built VW engines are far and few between from what I have seen. Sounds like yours is done right.
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Agreed. They're pretty easy to work on, I guess that leads a lot of 'shadetree' mechanics to working on them. I've seen some pretty sad/funny things over the years. Not to mention they're all pretty darn old at this point.
robert
robert
You guys are familiar with HTF's? The UCON series comes to mind.
These are synthetic oils.
These are synthetic oils.
All good input, thanks!
I've just taken possession of a 1970 1955 cc VW Beetle, my first in (gulp!) 41 years! It has 225 miles on Valvoline 10W40, so some time to go before next OC.
I've just taken possession of a 1970 1955 cc VW Beetle, my first in (gulp!) 41 years! It has 225 miles on Valvoline 10W40, so some time to go before next OC.
Ive seen Alot of Castrol GTX used in German Flat Fours. Castrol GTX HIGH Mileage 10w-30 for most climates or 10w-40 for warmer weather is my recommendation.
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