Don’t worry about your oil filter. Worry about your head gasket.
ARP studs to start with.
Oil filter recommendations for 450-500 hp K20C4
- Thread starter Bman90
- Start date
ARP studs to start with.
I'm on several 10th gen Accord forums, and this sounds to me like another perfectly good car is about to be butchered and someone is going to spend a lot of money to ruin a car and end up losing even more when they decide they actually don't like it, then try to sell it to someone else who won't even pay stock-car prices for it. This is the result of getting advice from "bros" who post how awesome their car is while quietly selling the car at a massive loss after a couple years.
Just know that if you go through with all those mods, you are essentially committing to owning the car until it's totaled, or selling it for an even greater loss. Your insurance company won't give you a cent for all those mods. And very, very few buyers are going to want to massive question mark of buying someone else's hot rod.
I'm a Honda guy, but I'm also an engineer who makes a living in engine development, specializing in fuel system development. I submit to you that 450-500hp in a front wheel drive car is very unwise. Your STOCK car cannot put down the stock power levels until about 30mph, and that's only with traction control intervening to help it out. Instead of having a car that rips just off idle, you'll have a laggy car that doesn't pull until 3000rpm, and that's why an MHI. If you make the mistake of going as big as, say, a PRL P700, you'll have an ocean of regret that you traded 5000rpm of useful rev range for a tiny sliver of barely more power at high rpm.
If you want to upgrade your car without butchering it, just settle for a tune and a stock FL5 CTR turbo. This will run 350hp easy on pump gas, keeps the the torque at level less likely to grenade your trans, and keeps good response for daily driving. You don't need an intercooler upgrade. Many racing teams have gone from huge intercooler back to the stock one because a huge intercooler adds a ton of lag. On top of a big turbo, it's even laggier.
You don't need exhaust upgrades. You don't need an aftermarket intake. Definitely do not go to a typical K&N style filter. The filtration is awful. YOu definitely don't want hard pipes that have higher assembly and dynamic stresses and lead to cracked components. You every wonder why Honda put flex sections there when hard pipes would be cheaper for them?
The MHI stage 2 is absolutely the biggest turbo you should ever consider for a K20C that sees any street duty whatsoever, with the FL5 turbo eating its lunch in the real world.
Hondata has videos showing the aftermarket intercoolers adding lag and a whopping 5hp only at peak. Skip them.
It's your car, do as you please. But remember this post and come back to it after two years of driving a laggy car with a glitching transmission and a problematic flex fuel system after you've done the headgasket a time or two. Don't say you weren't warned.
I think you might benefit from doing a bit more homework-- and more importantly, doing your "research" at places other than the 10th Gen accord forums and youtube videos that start with "Yo, what up, it's your boy.."
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This.
Geez where do I even start. I actually haven’t done any “research” on the Accord forum. I’ve talked to real world tuners, builders and such. I don’t care if I grenade the engine because it will come back stronger with JSR forged pistons and rods.
I can’t tell if you’re looking out for me or being an ass or both but thanks. This isn’t the first car or the last that I will modify. I got the same flack years ago on the 3si forum for modding my 3000gt sohc: stock it makes 161 horsepower. I sunk in a lot of money into it and everyone said just to mod a DOHC or go twin turbo but I stuck to my plan and I enjoyed the car for what it was, it was different, quick, and reliable.
I actually was going to get the p700 a year ago when it was on sale for $1800 but several respected tuners that I spoke to told me to avoid it, I went with the mhi. FK8TD also told me with a ported head and the automatic I don’t have to worry about lag even if I went with a g3770 turbo from rampage fab. The limits of the 10 speed are still not known since the record is now over 600 wheel horsepower on the built jsr motor. I also have 88a mounts and 275/17 Toyo 888r tires to help with traction so I’m not worried about that. The intercooler is there in case I go crazy and decide to crank it up more. Exhaust wise I’m doing it mainly for sound most of the performance comes from the downpipe/frontpipe stock frontpipe is only 2.37” the RV6 is 3. Can the FL5 turbo reliably crack 400 wheel horsepower like the mhi ? If I was only aiming for 350 wheel horsepower even the stock turbo gets close look at Phearable stage 4 tune it made what 335 or 340 wheel horsepower?
Phearable shows an FL5 turbo is 380hp with basic bolt ons and their Stage 5. Beyond that, You need the MHI S2.
That's exactly where I'd stop for a street bound car. No fuel system mods. No dual fuel. Just an factory turbo from the CTR, some bolt ons and a tune. You keep spool that is as good or better than a CTR.
Honestly, where *I* personally would stop is just FL5 and tune and skip literally every other possible bolt on. They offer almost nothing in in HP for the money and frankly their a net negative in many cases. Aftermarket exhausts that drone, rust out, or cause you to bust emissions. CoLdAiR InTaKeS that have awful filtration and actually have higher intake temperatures. Downpipes that don't fit right and rust in 2 years.
What blows headgaskets and kills transmissions is torque (BMEP), not horsepower. So if you're staying under 400lb-ft (as you should) to honor that, then you have a realistic absolute max HP range at 6000rpm of about 450hp unless you are doing a full race build engine with all forged hardware and a sleeved block. Now on any stock-long-block K20C, you're going to actually peak torque between 4500 and 5000rpm, meaning your practically upper limit is more like 400hp when you carry it to 6000-6500 rpm.
This is why the 380hp FL5 Phearable S5 is such a sweet spot. Huge upgrade over stock, faster than vast majority of sedans and many "high performance" cars, and yet not so far gone that you have blown gaskets, fuel dilution, and all the problems that come with pushing just a bit too far. Plus it spools like lightning and is "real world" fast. As fast as the 10 speed is to downshift, it still doesn't eliminate lag.
I'm going to wait a couple more years before tuning my car. But when I do, it will be reliable, efficient, and almost undetectable. And still have 350+hp.
It's worth mentioning that tuning shops want to sell you parts. So they have an incentive to vastly oversell you on the performance of their wares and not keep you aware of the downsides. 27won turbos puking their bearings and leaking oil. PRL intercoolers causing a lot more lag while adding like 8hp and only rarely can you see that. PRL P700s that are way to big and laggy for any stock redline engine. Aftermarket HP fuel pumps that are way less reliable and cause fuel dilution problems. Dual fuel setups that
I was about to test your flame suit.
For a build like yours, I would do the same that I did with my drag car. Install a remote filter mount for a Fram XG8A / Wix 51515XP / Baldwin BT524. The larger size filter will ensure sufficient flow without compromising filtration. This isn't necessary given the stock pump, but I like peace of mind things. Plus, you can locate the filter wherever you want that's convenient to access.
Thanks that’s the post I was looking for I was actually going to ask about the 27 won turbo as an alternative to mhi slightly smaller than mhi but larger than the fl5 turbo. But I guess they have reliability issues? They now have a kuro +! I also installed an oil catch can.
Here’s mine on Phearble 3 with motor mounts intake and 93 octane. 255/35/19 toto T1R tires terrible 2.23 60 foot. I think as it sat it probably should have done 4.7-4.8 0-60 and low 13s. 13.4 is my best and best trap speed on that set up was 105 mph.
I'm looking into doing similar for my Accord 2.0, but man there's just no space on these things. I really like the Setrab parts, they have both adapter plates and remote heads as well as sandwich plates. But I can't see a sandwich plate fitting on the K20C unless you have an aftermarket pan with more clearance or a REALLY tight plate that's essentially oil filter diameter.I was about to test your flame suit.
For a build like yours, I would do the same that I did with my drag car. Install a remote filter mount for a Fram XG8A / Wix 51515XP / Baldwin BT524. The larger size filter will ensure sufficient flow without compromising filtration. This isn't necessary given the stock pump, but I like peace of mind things. Plus, you can locate the filter wherever you want that's convenient to access.
For reference I can't even get an S2000-size oil filter *started* on my accord, the OD is too big to fit in the pan relieve. Likewise for any 3593 or 9688 similar size filter. In the stock location, a 7317 size OD is all that will fit,
I made a big ugly thread about all my crazy oil filter relocation and cooler install ideas and ultimately just came full circle back to staying stock makes sense for now. I still really like the idea, but until I have a solid plan that's is perfectly thought out, I'm not going to order any parts.
There's only so much you can do with an open diff FWD car. The 60 ft is telling you that.
IMO, only two turbo upgrade make sense for the Accord-- the FL5 or the MHI. The former for street cars, the latter for more track-oriented builds.
Since I work in engine development and have done some turbocharger development, I've come to the conclusion that almost every "speed shop" turbo is pretty awful. If you look at the incredible geometry of the latest compressor and turbine wheels, then compare them to something like a PRL700, you'll see that the speed shop turbos are 20 years behind in tech. Probably more.
So unless that actual compressor or turbine wheels are coming from someone with world class CFD at their disposal-- MHI, Garret/honeywell, Borg-Warner, the tech is probably lagging a good bit. The smallest turbo companies I'd consider would be Precision and Turbonetics. I believe they actually CFD and have Hines balancers and such and all the appropriate development tools. This is quite different from most "turbo shop" turbos that are just playing mad scientist with someone else's compressor and turbine wheels by cooking up nonstandard "hybrids" and one-off housings.
Look at the FL5 turbo and compare it even to the FK8. The FL5 makes more power *and* spools faster. And it's barely 5 year newer tech than the FK8. Look at the advances in jet engine tech even in just the last 5 years. It's a similar story.
If you're buying a typical aftermarket turbo from a tuner shop with their name on it, you're buying something that is a brute force approach that is highly compromised because they are using sheer size to try to make power. Lots of cases of people buying smaller, more sophisticated turbos and making more power with less lag-- just like the FL5 is an advancement over the FK8.
That 2.23 60ft is killing you. I had an '07 Focus with a GT2860RS that made 285 whp @ 12 psi. The stock open diff was horrible. The best 60ft I could manage was a 2.08 while riding out the clutch. After installing the LSD, it improved quite a bit. My best run was...
60ft - 1.915
1/8 - 8.29 @ 85.9 mph
1/4 - 12.94 @ 105.4 mph
You're not far off from that.
60ft - 1.915
1/8 - 8.29 @ 85.9 mph
1/4 - 12.94 @ 105.4 mph
You're not far off from that.
Horses for courses-- the Accord as a fwd sedan is just not the right tool for the standing-start-race job. By all means, mod it and enjoy it and do as you wish. Just don't blame the car for being what it was designed to be and not what you are trying to redesign it to be. FWD can excel in roll-on and even in some road racing type applications, but for standing start racing, eventually you just run up against the physics of weight transfer.
My accord is fun enough off the line (given the truly awful oem Primacy AS tires), but it's the highway roll ons where it raises eyebrows.
My accord is fun enough off the line (given the truly awful oem Primacy AS tires), but it's the highway roll ons where it raises eyebrows.
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100% correct. This post is a good example of why just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. OP needs to decide whether he wants a car he can daily drive or a race car - there is no middle ground. I have been through this with an Acura Integra and two turbo Nissans in my younger years. I owned a turbo Sentra SE-R and turbo 240SX intended to be a drift car. Absolutely fun and absolute money pits. The SE-R was set up much better suited for daily driving, but began to rust.
Vehicle modifications often add little to the value of the vehicle except for a very small niche of buyers. Even to that niche, it's a hard sell. I turbocharged my Focus knowing that, and I don't regret it. I pushed it too hard and sent a rod through the block. I acquired a new block and all the guts to build it for more boost and power, but it ended up sitting for a while as I finished another project. Then I worked out a deal with guy for a decent purchase price pending I built the engine, tuned it, and had it turn key ready. He wrapped it around a tree a few months later. 
I definitely lost money but it was well worth the years of fun I got from it.
I definitely lost money but it was well worth the years of fun I got from it.Quick update. Do you guys think that Mobil 1 full synthetic atf is fine? That’s what I’m running now Honda stated “type 2.0 atf is low viscosity and optimized for fuel efficiency”. I might switch to Redline d6 which is higher quality and a tad lower viscosity. So far though the Mobil 1 seems to be standing up to abuse not noticing any slipping.
Car made 415whp. Full bolt ons, e30/93 blend, ported fuel line, upgraded dw430c fuel pump, NGK plugs and coils. Next up will be suspension upgrades and wheels. I’m on 17x9 RpF1 wrapped in 245/45/17 Nitto nt555r2 drag radials.
Here’s a video from the track. Best mph was 116.86 best Et was 12.91. I was having traction issues all day and kcon numbers kept climbing 0.91-0.99 and kept going up after every run even after letting the car cool off. I’m sending data logs to my tuner.
My buddies golf r was running 11.9-12.2 all day and trapping 112.5-116.His car is making 370-380 whp. I’m guessing with mine being 415 whp and weighing about the same I should be trapping a bit higher ? I’m not sure how much timing was being pulled.
Car made 415whp. Full bolt ons, e30/93 blend, ported fuel line, upgraded dw430c fuel pump, NGK plugs and coils. Next up will be suspension upgrades and wheels. I’m on 17x9 RpF1 wrapped in 245/45/17 Nitto nt555r2 drag radials.
Here’s a video from the track. Best mph was 116.86 best Et was 12.91. I was having traction issues all day and kcon numbers kept climbing 0.91-0.99 and kept going up after every run even after letting the car cool off. I’m sending data logs to my tuner.
My buddies golf r was running 11.9-12.2 all day and trapping 112.5-116.His car is making 370-380 whp. I’m guessing with mine being 415 whp and weighing about the same I should be trapping a bit higher ? I’m not sure how much timing was being pulled.
Not the same gear boxes.
Not the same suspension.
Not the same driver.
Not the same tires?
Yes, power/weight ratio is crucial but there are many other factors that affect the speed.
My RpF1 wheels weigh a lot less too 17x9 is around 16 lbs. per wheel. I couldn’t find anything lighter in that size. That probably helps less drag I’m guessing. Gotta get some lighter wheels for the rear too.
Lighter wheels & tires mean less rotating inertia which helps add a little more HP to the ground. Spinning wheels act like flywheels. Less mass means it takes less HP to spin them up.
If his gear box is more suited for that track - means he either has shorter gears to pull him faster out of the turns or he has longer gears that allow him to reach higher speed in the end of the straights all weight reduction you do to your car may not compensate for that.
Yes DCT automatic shifts faster and the car is awd. His 60 foot times were 1.8 and mine were 2.4-2.5. I gotta figure out how to get a better 60 foot time there’s higher horsepower Accords getting 1.9x.
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