My driveway is not public property. They have to trespass to get access to a vehicle in my driveway.
Oil Change Find FBI Tracing Device
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Originally Posted By: Vikas
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Probably. But since legally they can track anyone with a GPS without a warrant then why go through the trouble of justifying it and creating precedent?
Can you tell me more about "legally tracking with GPS without warrant"? Are you telling me that a "bug" can be installed in "perp"'s vehicle without any warrant legally as long as the "bug" is not of the type which sends "audio" signal?
I have heard some crazy rationales to bypass federal wiretap statutes such as claiming "video" recording is not applicable to wiretaps etc. Is this something crazily similar?
- Vikas
The original article gives a good summary of the legal thought on this. Since the PATRIOT act was enacted, you should ratchet down your expectations of what your rights are and what the government cannot do.
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Probably. But since legally they can track anyone with a GPS without a warrant then why go through the trouble of justifying it and creating precedent?
Can you tell me more about "legally tracking with GPS without warrant"? Are you telling me that a "bug" can be installed in "perp"'s vehicle without any warrant legally as long as the "bug" is not of the type which sends "audio" signal?
I have heard some crazy rationales to bypass federal wiretap statutes such as claiming "video" recording is not applicable to wiretaps etc. Is this something crazily similar?
- Vikas
The original article gives a good summary of the legal thought on this. Since the PATRIOT act was enacted, you should ratchet down your expectations of what your rights are and what the government cannot do.
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
So here is a though:
If FBI is busted for placing a trace on a guy, can they now mandate him to keep the trace on? If so, is it equivalent to placing a monitoring device on a non convicted criminal?
If not, is it illegal for him to throw the trace in the trash? Why not?
If it is legal for him to throw the trace in the trash, can he flat out refuse to return the trace?
It will sure get confusing if he wants to play hard ball and find a blood thirsty civil right lawyer.
I was basically thinking the same thing. I'm guessing according to the FBI, GPS tracking is no different than following the car around or watching from a satellite. Regardless of the privacy & constitutionality issues, I would think the critical difference is a GPS device requires tampering with someone's private property.
I find it incredibly disturbing that the government has the right to attach devices to an American citizen's vehicle without consent or notice.
An American citizen is an American citizen regardless of what his name sounds like or where his father is from. I find the actions of the FBI incredibly disturbing.
So here is a though:
If FBI is busted for placing a trace on a guy, can they now mandate him to keep the trace on? If so, is it equivalent to placing a monitoring device on a non convicted criminal?
If not, is it illegal for him to throw the trace in the trash? Why not?
If it is legal for him to throw the trace in the trash, can he flat out refuse to return the trace?
It will sure get confusing if he wants to play hard ball and find a blood thirsty civil right lawyer.
I was basically thinking the same thing. I'm guessing according to the FBI, GPS tracking is no different than following the car around or watching from a satellite. Regardless of the privacy & constitutionality issues, I would think the critical difference is a GPS device requires tampering with someone's private property.
I find it incredibly disturbing that the government has the right to attach devices to an American citizen's vehicle without consent or notice.
An American citizen is an American citizen regardless of what his name sounds like or where his father is from. I find the actions of the FBI incredibly disturbing.
Originally Posted By: cbear
What gives them the right to tamper with private property? Even if the car was on a public stret, an agent had to get under the car and attach the device.
I would say nothing gives them the right other than probable cause and obtaining a warrant. But I guess not. This tracking device is peanuts compared to what all they are doing. They can basically intercept at will all your phone calls and private internet communications
. The only bright side is there is so many communications going on that they would need suspicion to even bother. Just imagine if England had that kind of intelligence on the patriots. They would've ran them in and the revolution would've never happened lol.
What gives them the right to tamper with private property? Even if the car was on a public stret, an agent had to get under the car and attach the device.
I would say nothing gives them the right other than probable cause and obtaining a warrant. But I guess not. This tracking device is peanuts compared to what all they are doing. They can basically intercept at will all your phone calls and private internet communications
Originally Posted By: cbear
My driveway is not public property. They have to trespass to get access to a vehicle in my driveway.
Not according to the courts. Can you walk on your neighbor's driveway without asking first? How about the mailman?
This is the rational used by the courts to justify these activities.
My driveway is not public property. They have to trespass to get access to a vehicle in my driveway.
Not according to the courts. Can you walk on your neighbor's driveway without asking first? How about the mailman?
This is the rational used by the courts to justify these activities.
Warrants aren't really that constitutional either. All is takes is a little white lie from one party and they just 'legally' signed away what was signed to us in 1787.
Do you ever read about search warrants being issued and the SWAT teams gets the wrong house and shoots the owner's dog? Happens more than you think. Judges can be just as corrupt as LEOs, so I don't know why the lawyers get all the flak, they're just working the law as it was written by the mighty people in DC.
Wasn't there a quote some time ago about some guy saying we will be gladly handing over our freedoms? Wasn't the patriot act signed by all but one lawmaker in just a week or two? If this country was true to its heritage, then something as big and important as the patriot act would have been voted on by us, the people. We lose freedoms and liberites with regularity from the big wigs and DC and we have little to no input.
And even if we did get to vote on such issues, they'd just unconstitutionally overturn it like in Arizona's immigration. Whats the point of letting us vote when they do as they please if they dont get the desired result from the people?
Anyway, its good to have the internet since we can learn of all the injustices done from those that are supposed to first Serve us and then protect us. Most news places are pretty tight with the law folks so that we don't hear of alot of the corruption, until we got internet news.
Kind of makes your blood boil doesn't it. Ever been pulled over for doing 5 under the speed limit. Im sure someone who drives like that has something to hide (or they could be running drugs)and ole blue is protecting the people by checking it out. Really, happened to me and after he asked all the questions (whatcha doing, where ya going, etc) he signs off with you sure arent in any hurry are ya. It doesn't matter if you're doing right or wrong, being illegal or legal, it boils down to if you're out of the 'normal'. Profiling is so justice system.
Love the reference to 1984, I just picked that book up a few weeks ago and am around page 165 today. Who is worse, the USA or England?
Do you ever read about search warrants being issued and the SWAT teams gets the wrong house and shoots the owner's dog? Happens more than you think. Judges can be just as corrupt as LEOs, so I don't know why the lawyers get all the flak, they're just working the law as it was written by the mighty people in DC.
Wasn't there a quote some time ago about some guy saying we will be gladly handing over our freedoms? Wasn't the patriot act signed by all but one lawmaker in just a week or two? If this country was true to its heritage, then something as big and important as the patriot act would have been voted on by us, the people. We lose freedoms and liberites with regularity from the big wigs and DC and we have little to no input.
And even if we did get to vote on such issues, they'd just unconstitutionally overturn it like in Arizona's immigration. Whats the point of letting us vote when they do as they please if they dont get the desired result from the people?
Anyway, its good to have the internet since we can learn of all the injustices done from those that are supposed to first Serve us and then protect us. Most news places are pretty tight with the law folks so that we don't hear of alot of the corruption, until we got internet news.
Kind of makes your blood boil doesn't it. Ever been pulled over for doing 5 under the speed limit. Im sure someone who drives like that has something to hide (or they could be running drugs)and ole blue is protecting the people by checking it out. Really, happened to me and after he asked all the questions (whatcha doing, where ya going, etc) he signs off with you sure arent in any hurry are ya. It doesn't matter if you're doing right or wrong, being illegal or legal, it boils down to if you're out of the 'normal'. Profiling is so justice system.
Love the reference to 1984, I just picked that book up a few weeks ago and am around page 165 today. Who is worse, the USA or England?
Don't know about other states, but my cars are in my driveway which is on my property. You have to trespass onto my property to place a device on my vehicles.
Here in Texas that's called trespassing and I can legally shoot some lame *** that I see laying under my car fiddling with it.
Now if I'm parked at some store, that's a different story...
Here in Texas that's called trespassing and I can legally shoot some lame *** that I see laying under my car fiddling with it.
Now if I'm parked at some store, that's a different story...
Good god, what is happening to my country?
Originally Posted By: bigmike
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Where I live, the city can tow your car away if it has been parked on your property for too long and is deemed an eyesore.
Who is the deeming party?
One man's eyesore is another man's wife.
The city.
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Where I live, the city can tow your car away if it has been parked on your property for too long and is deemed an eyesore.
Who is the deeming party?
One man's eyesore is another man's wife.
The city.
I'm just wondering if there was a commission or committee that decides this. Sounds a bit extreme to me. I suppose if they could make it into a "safety" matter, that might hold water.
I'd wondering what would happen if someone on this board decides the mayor's car is an eyesore?
I'd wondering what would happen if someone on this board decides the mayor's car is an eyesore?
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: cbear
My driveway is not public property. They have to trespass to get access to a vehicle in my driveway.
Not according to the courts. Can you walk on your neighbor's driveway without asking first? How about the mailman?
This is the rational used by the courts to justify these activities.
What if you have a gated driveway? I dont but I have friends that do, and one of them is preparing for a zombie invasion so I know he wouldnt react well to seeing FBI agents under one of his trucks.
Originally Posted By: cbear
My driveway is not public property. They have to trespass to get access to a vehicle in my driveway.
Not according to the courts. Can you walk on your neighbor's driveway without asking first? How about the mailman?
This is the rational used by the courts to justify these activities.
What if you have a gated driveway? I dont but I have friends that do, and one of them is preparing for a zombie invasion so I know he wouldnt react well to seeing FBI agents under one of his trucks.
Originally Posted By: bigmike
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Where I live, the city can tow your car away if it has been parked on your property for too long and is deemed an eyesore.
Who is the deeming party?
One man's eyesore is another man's wife.
Most of those ordinances (all the ones I've ever seen, anyhow) refer not to the physical appearance of the vehicle, but to an "inoperable" vehicle.
An "inoperable" vehicle is one that is either missing parts required to make it operate (engine, transmission, wheels) or has parts that are not in a condition to allow it to operate (flat tires).
A vehicle is often suspected of being inoperable if it never moves and/or has dead tags. A vehicle that is moved and driven on a regular basis is obviously not inoperable, regardless of the fact that some may think it an "eyesore".
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Where I live, the city can tow your car away if it has been parked on your property for too long and is deemed an eyesore.
Who is the deeming party?
One man's eyesore is another man's wife.
Most of those ordinances (all the ones I've ever seen, anyhow) refer not to the physical appearance of the vehicle, but to an "inoperable" vehicle.
An "inoperable" vehicle is one that is either missing parts required to make it operate (engine, transmission, wheels) or has parts that are not in a condition to allow it to operate (flat tires).
A vehicle is often suspected of being inoperable if it never moves and/or has dead tags. A vehicle that is moved and driven on a regular basis is obviously not inoperable, regardless of the fact that some may think it an "eyesore".
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We have lots of collectors of fine junque. There is a dead vehicle ordinance. If it's covered, they're not allowed to remove the cover to inspect if it's road worthy. Lots of collectors of fine junque~ (of the 4 wheel kind) take advantage of this loophole.
Originally Posted By: sasilverbullet
Don't know about other states, but my cars are in my driveway which is on my property. You have to trespass onto my property to place a device on my vehicles.
Here in Texas that's called trespassing and I can legally shoot some lame *** that I see laying under my car fiddling with it.
Now if I'm parked at some store, that's a different story...
Unless you can prove they put it on in your driveway it doesn't matter. They could have easily put it on in any number of semi-public and fully-public places like work, the mall, or street parking. It doesn't take much stalking until you get into a safe spot to put one on.
Don't know about other states, but my cars are in my driveway which is on my property. You have to trespass onto my property to place a device on my vehicles.
Here in Texas that's called trespassing and I can legally shoot some lame *** that I see laying under my car fiddling with it.
Now if I'm parked at some store, that's a different story...
Unless you can prove they put it on in your driveway it doesn't matter. They could have easily put it on in any number of semi-public and fully-public places like work, the mall, or street parking. It doesn't take much stalking until you get into a safe spot to put one on.
I assume those who actually do have something to hide will now be checking their vehicles for interference, rendering this technique less useful.
I wonder what it would take to qualify for a GPS tracker - borrowing some Arabic books from the library..?
I wonder what it would take to qualify for a GPS tracker - borrowing some Arabic books from the library..?
Originally Posted By: brianl703
Most of those ordinances (all the ones I've ever seen, anyhow) refer not to the physical appearance of the vehicle, but to an "inoperable" vehicle.
An "inoperable" vehicle is one that is either missing parts required to make it operate (engine, transmission, wheels) or has parts that are not in a condition to allow it to operate (flat tires).
A vehicle is often suspected of being inoperable if it never moves and/or has dead tags. A vehicle that is moved and driven on a regular basis is obviously not inoperable, regardless of the fact that some may think it an "eyesore".
That's how the ordinance works where I live. If a vehicle is inoperable or has expired tags, it has to be tarped or parked out-of-sight. It has nothing to do with what the vehicle looks like.
Most of those ordinances (all the ones I've ever seen, anyhow) refer not to the physical appearance of the vehicle, but to an "inoperable" vehicle.
An "inoperable" vehicle is one that is either missing parts required to make it operate (engine, transmission, wheels) or has parts that are not in a condition to allow it to operate (flat tires).
A vehicle is often suspected of being inoperable if it never moves and/or has dead tags. A vehicle that is moved and driven on a regular basis is obviously not inoperable, regardless of the fact that some may think it an "eyesore".
That's how the ordinance works where I live. If a vehicle is inoperable or has expired tags, it has to be tarped or parked out-of-sight. It has nothing to do with what the vehicle looks like.
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