Oil Certifications / 7.3L Requirements / ULSD?

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Spooner65

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What oil certifications are required for the 7.3L? I see CJ-4 thrown around a lot, is that the big one? Just trying to learn more about oils.

Also some oils say "for use in 2007 and newer diesel engines." where some others say "for use in pre-2007 engines and 2007 or newer engines off highway."

I have to assume this has something to do with ULSD and LSD but, what exactly?
 
CH or later is what you need. Personally, I would seek out CI or CI+ for the 7.3PSD, but CJ will do. My 02 Excursion does not come with a cat from the factory so I can run practically anything available today.
 
Which 7.3L do you have? They do go all the way back to 1987 in IDI, and 1995 in PSD, IIRC (my years might be off a year or so as I'm not the expert JA is ...)

Genearlly, it does not matter though. If you are going to OCI at normal intervals, then just get the least expensive CJ-4 lube you can find on sale. The engine will not care nearly as much as all the people who will profess that one brand/grade/cert is "better" than another here. CJ-4 is completely backwards compatible (except for the old two-stroke diesel apps). Because ULSD is fully road and off-road applied now, former stuff just really isn't necessary because the sulfer is so incredibly low. CJ-4 lubes do reduce wear in many ways over the former stuff.
 
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CJ-4 is fine on any engine using ULSD.... but ONLY use it with ULSD. It's not suitable for high sulfur fuels (which are getting hard to find now)! All reports have the CJ doing very much better in soot dispersement than CI and works very well in older diesel engines. It certainly has in mine... which go back to 1970.... proven with used oil analysis and at long OCIs.

CI-4 is fine on any engine LSD or ULSD. No denying it's a good formulation and it was a big step up from CH. CI-4is getting harder to find in the ordinary retail environment where you can get good prices. Is it "better" than CJ-4? It's a different formulation and the chicken-little syndrome sufferers were predicting disaster when it was introduced... one that didn't occur.

I've never seen any comparison studies done on legacy engines that proves CI-4 produces better overall results. We do know that testing was done to back certify the oil for most older applications and that if you search the used oil analysis section, you will find plenty of used oil analysis showing CJ-4 does well in older engines. All the arguments I've seen against CJ-4 are mostly theoretical and based on comparing spec sheets (mostly ZDDP levels). In practice, we really haven't seen much difference in the results or even OCIs.

Thus far I have not seen anything that would convince me to go to a lot of extra effort and expense to acquire CI-4. If it were side by side on the retail shelves with CJ-4, and at the same price, I'm not sure I care enough now to reach for it in preference. Not against it either. The main criteria is to NOT use CJ-4 with LSD. It isn't formulated to deal with high levels of sulfur in fuel.
 
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Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
The main criteria is to NOT use CJ-4 with LSD. It isn't formulated to deal with high levels of sulfur in fuel.



Actually I beg to differ.
CJ4 is formulated to deal with sulfur up to 500ppm, which is the upper limit of LSD. Use of it in higher sulfur regimes (or even around 500ppm) would require more frequent oil changes, however.
Use of any oil, even high TBN ACEA E4 oils, requires more frequent changes with use of very high sulfur fuel. The higher the TBN, the longer the oil will last with high sulfur fuel.

Charlie

7. Do API CJ-4 oils protect older engines if they are operated on 500 ppm maximum sulfur fuel?
Yes, API CJ-4 oils are designed to have performance benefits over API CI-4 and API CI-4 PLUS oils when using both 15 ppm and 500 ppm sulfur fuel, and qualification testing is conducted using both fuels. As a reminder, 2007 on-highway engines with advanced emissions systems must use ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel containing 15-ppm sulfur or less. In cases where older engines/vehicles are operated with 500 ppm sulfur fuel, API CJ-4 is designed to protect the engine better than API CI-4 and API CI-4 PLUS. As always, users should seek guidance from their engine or vehicle manufacturer regarding specific service recommendations.
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from API page
 
Right. I should have said, The main criteria is to NOT use CJ-4 with LSD. It isn't formulated to deal with high levels of sulfur in fuel with long OCIs." Better?
 
Well, the API says CJ4 IS formulated for LSD (defined as up to 500ppm S). I doubt anyone would have a problem with 500ppm fuel and CJ4 following standard OCIs.
IMHO EGR is harder on oil than 500ppm sulfur.

Charlie
 
So much information
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Brons2
If I had an HD pickup with a diesel, I'd look for some John Deere Plus 50 in 15w40. That stuff is stout!


X2 or Devlac 1300 Super or whatever'on sale with 4,000 mi OCi's. But use Motorcraft or Donaldson oil filters
 
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
The 7.3 returns very good used oil analysis on 10w30 also.


Just in time.....

AMSOIL Adds a 10w30 to the OE Diesel Family

New OE 10w30 Synthetic Diesel Oil is API CJ-4 licensed and suitable for modern and older, on- and off-road diesel applications.
 
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
The 7.3 returns very good used oil analysis on 10w30 also.


Just in time.....

AMSOIL Adds a 10w30 to the OE Diesel Family

New OE 10w30 Synthetic Diesel Oil is API CJ-4 licensed and suitable for modern and older, on- and off-road diesel applications.


That's actually why I asked. I want to run a round of amsoil.
Just trying to pick the right one. I'm going for extended OCIs but I think 50,000 like they say is just too long. I'll run an UOA to pin point it.

So the "2007 and newer" one should be fine even though my truck is a 2002? It's CJ4 and the other option is "pre-2007 on or off highest and 2007 an newer off highway."
 
Originally Posted By: Spooner65
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
The 7.3 returns very good used oil analysis on 10w30 also.


Just in time.....

AMSOIL Adds a 10w30 to the OE Diesel Family

New OE 10w30 Synthetic Diesel Oil is API CJ-4 licensed and suitable for modern and older, on- and off-road diesel applications.


That's actually why I asked. I want to run a round of amsoil.
Just trying to pick the right one. I'm going for extended OCIs but I think 50,000 like they say is just too long. I'll run an UOA to pin point it.

So the "2007 and newer" one should be fine even though my truck is a 2002? It's CJ4 and the other option is "pre-2007 on or off highest and 2007 an newer off highway."



New offering CJ-4, $20 gallon PC:
Amsoil OEC 10w30

Old standby:
Amsoil ACD 10w30/SAE 30
 
Originally Posted By: Spooner65
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
The 7.3 returns very good used oil analysis on 10w30 also.


Just in time.....

AMSOIL Adds a 10w30 to the OE Diesel Family

New OE 10w30 Synthetic Diesel Oil is API CJ-4 licensed and suitable for modern and older, on- and off-road diesel applications.

That's actually why I asked. I want to run a round of amsoil.
Just trying to pick the right one. I'm going for extended OCIs but I think 50,000 like they say is just too long. I'll run an UOA to pin point it.

So the "2007 and newer" one should be fine even though my truck is a 2002? It's CJ4 and the other option is "pre-2007 on or off highest and 2007 an newer off highway."
The CJ-4 spec was actually enacted, along with 50 ppm ULSD, for Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) use-it just so happens that it is better at agglomerating soot than CI-4+, and the lower sulfur levels allow the TBN to last LONGER, so the lower levels of additives don't hurt anything. My only concern is shearing from the HEUI injection-which Dave Newton and others have proved-is greatly lessened by using 10W30 instead of 15W40.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Spooner65
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
The 7.3 returns very good used oil analysis on 10w30 also.


Just in time.....

AMSOIL Adds a 10w30 to the OE Diesel Family

New OE 10w30 Synthetic Diesel Oil is API CJ-4 licensed and suitable for modern and older, on- and off-road diesel applications.


That's actually why I asked. I want to run a round of amsoil.
Just trying to pick the right one. I'm going for extended OCIs but I think 50,000 like they say is just too long. I'll run an UOA to pin point it.

So the "2007 and newer" one should be fine even though my truck is a 2002? It's CJ4 and the other option is "pre-2007 on or off highest and 2007 an newer off highway."



New offering CJ-4, $20 gallon PC:
Amsoil OEC 10w30

Old standby:
Amsoil ACD 10w30/SAE 30



The PC price for the ACD is?

Now, the OE would be good for OEM-OCI's and the ACD would be good for 3 times the OEM OIC? What is the price per mile difference?
 
Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2

The PC price for the ACD is?

Now, the OE would be good for OEM-OCI's and the ACD would be good for 3 times the OEM OIC? What is the price per mile difference?


You know. It's $27.75/gallon.

If you don't need CJ-4 and do extended drains, ACD is the way to go.
 
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