Oil at less than $48/barrel
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FED is stress testing the banks with and using oil at 110. Don't look now but the great depression was the same way bottom falls out and bankers try to hold it up and it still went . Fed and are government have spent trillions to keep us going but rapid deflation is coming better not live in a major city because it could get ugly quick. Anyone out side Wall Street or dc would've seen how weak the economic recovery really was toilet paper is worth more than the green back or any newspaper glad I don't have kids to see this people can't hack be called a name what till they are hungry and cold
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Gasoline at Costco today was $2.299 per gallon. If you subtract the 71 cents tax, it would've been $1.589.
The government always makes far more profit per gallon than the oil companies. They don't earn it, nor have any risk in it. Yet people complain about 'big oil' and their profits.
I've always thought this was crazy talk. Governments don't generate a profit from their tax. The spend that money on the roads. Somehow people expect roads to be maintained and yet not have to pay for it. The road tax doesn't generate enough revenue to fix the roads as it is. Personally I'd prefer it if the bridge I drive over doesn't fall down.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Gasoline at Costco today was $2.299 per gallon. If you subtract the 71 cents tax, it would've been $1.589.
The government always makes far more profit per gallon than the oil companies. They don't earn it, nor have any risk in it. Yet people complain about 'big oil' and their profits.
I've always thought this was crazy talk. Governments don't generate a profit from their tax. The spend that money on the roads. Somehow people expect roads to be maintained and yet not have to pay for it. The road tax doesn't generate enough revenue to fix the roads as it is. Personally I'd prefer it if the bridge I drive over doesn't fall down.
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Gasoline at Costco today was $2.299 per gallon. If you subtract the 71 cents tax, it would've been $1.589.
The government always makes far more profit per gallon than the oil companies. They don't earn it, nor have any risk in it. Yet people complain about 'big oil' and their profits.
They spend about 150% of gas tax revenues on highways, so I consider it a loss.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Gasoline at Costco today was $2.299 per gallon. If you subtract the 71 cents tax, it would've been $1.589.
The government always makes far more profit per gallon than the oil companies. They don't earn it, nor have any risk in it. Yet people complain about 'big oil' and their profits.
They spend about 150% of gas tax revenues on highways, so I consider it a loss.
It won't last. Likely will be back to $3.50-4.00 a gallon in time for summer. I'll enjoy the lower prices now!
yesterday our gas prices jumped from $1.65, up to $2.09.
dang speedway effect...
http://www.thegasgame.com/speedway-effect/
dang speedway effect...
http://www.thegasgame.com/speedway-effect/
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It will last as long as it takes for the alternative oil suppliers to start to go broke, or lose their funding/shareholder support.
When that run starts, prices will be back where they were, and big players will know what's been discovered, where it is, and what it costs to extract...and will buy it all quietly for later
When that run starts, prices will be back where they were, and big players will know what's been discovered, where it is, and what it costs to extract...and will buy it all quietly for later
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
I've always thought this was crazy talk. Governments don't generate a profit from their tax. The spend that money on the roads. Somehow people expect roads to be maintained and yet not have to pay for it. The road tax doesn't generate enough revenue to fix the roads as it is. Personally I'd prefer it if the bridge I drive over doesn't fall down.
Well, I live in one of the states with the highest gas taxes (PA; I think we are #3 now), pushed under the guise of "fixing the roads". Yet our roads are constantly the worst in the nation, we have closed bridges, and the tax goes up each year for the next few years.
I'd rather them fix the waste, fraud, and whatever else makes is not work at the current levels. Perhaps even move some money from the handout column to the road column and stop with the taxes.
We're a pretty rural state so high gas taxes hurt everyone except those in Philly and Pittsburgh.
As far as prices, go down baby. Let the speculators and manipulators go broke. IOW: F them. Oil is not something that goes bad so if you are selling it at a loss you should stop. There is a "natural" price for oil and I hope we're re-discovering it.
I've always thought this was crazy talk. Governments don't generate a profit from their tax. The spend that money on the roads. Somehow people expect roads to be maintained and yet not have to pay for it. The road tax doesn't generate enough revenue to fix the roads as it is. Personally I'd prefer it if the bridge I drive over doesn't fall down.
Well, I live in one of the states with the highest gas taxes (PA; I think we are #3 now), pushed under the guise of "fixing the roads". Yet our roads are constantly the worst in the nation, we have closed bridges, and the tax goes up each year for the next few years.
I'd rather them fix the waste, fraud, and whatever else makes is not work at the current levels. Perhaps even move some money from the handout column to the road column and stop with the taxes.
We're a pretty rural state so high gas taxes hurt everyone except those in Philly and Pittsburgh.
As far as prices, go down baby. Let the speculators and manipulators go broke. IOW: F them. Oil is not something that goes bad so if you are selling it at a loss you should stop. There is a "natural" price for oil and I hope we're re-discovering it.
Per yesterdays Broadcast News
Oil at well prices to produce
Middle East $10-$14 a barrel
Russia $15-$25
USA $50-$75
Also on 60 Minutes, "Government Taxes" on gasoline is paying for building/maintaining roads and bridges and it's almost broke. Hasn't been raised since 1993. Politicians have no guts to raise. 1/3 of Bridges are are in need of re-build and it's getting critical. Many single bridges are a billion dollar to re-build. One critical bridge on main railroad line to NE carries 500 Trains a day, built in 1890. One bridge that New York State has to re-build on it's own will cost $3.5 Billion,( over the Hudson River).
Oil at well prices to produce
Middle East $10-$14 a barrel
Russia $15-$25
USA $50-$75
Also on 60 Minutes, "Government Taxes" on gasoline is paying for building/maintaining roads and bridges and it's almost broke. Hasn't been raised since 1993. Politicians have no guts to raise. 1/3 of Bridges are are in need of re-build and it's getting critical. Many single bridges are a billion dollar to re-build. One critical bridge on main railroad line to NE carries 500 Trains a day, built in 1890. One bridge that New York State has to re-build on it's own will cost $3.5 Billion,( over the Hudson River).
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What I find so humorous about all of this is the people who adamantly defend the oil industry by saying they aren't price gouging when gas is $4+ and that prices are controlled by the market. This demonstrates that this notion clearly is not true. The industry itself controls prices by controlling supply. We could've easily had prices at $2.50 or less the entire time gas has been $3-$4 or more, but the greed of the industry has kept supply just barely above demand purposely to keep prices as high as possible. I don't want to hear any more about the lies of prices being controlled by the market...we now know that is garbage...my concern now is what will happen to prices once OPEC is done playing games...I wouldn't be surprised if gas prices went up $2 a gallon overnight...
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Monday morning they reported how cheap a barrel of crude was.. that afternoon gas when up to $2.15 a gallon. (30 cent increase locally.)
$2.15 is most certainly better than were used to, but as said, I could see it jumping up over night.
$2.15 is most certainly better than were used to, but as said, I could see it jumping up over night.
I'd hate to see taxes go up, but if fuel taxes are not paying for the roads... then I don't see a choice. Might as well add now, not later. [I'll add that I wish to see all of that increased money go to only the roads, but then again, since fuel taxes are not paying for the roads as it is, it's hardly a clause worth mentioning.]
I so want to replace my beater while prices are cheap on econoboxes. Do it now before it rebounds!
I so want to replace my beater while prices are cheap on econoboxes. Do it now before it rebounds!
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Monday morning they reported how cheap a barrel of crude was.. that afternoon gas when up to $2.15 a gallon. (30 cent increase locally.)
$2.15 is most certainly better than were used to, but as said, I could see it jumping up over night.
Why are gas prices going up when crude prices are still dropping? More games....
Monday morning they reported how cheap a barrel of crude was.. that afternoon gas when up to $2.15 a gallon. (30 cent increase locally.)
$2.15 is most certainly better than were used to, but as said, I could see it jumping up over night.
Why are gas prices going up when crude prices are still dropping? More games....
Originally Posted By: supton
I'd hate to see taxes go up, but if fuel taxes are not paying for the roads... then I don't see a choice. Might as well add now, not later. [I'll add that I wish to see all of that increased money go to only the roads, but then again, since fuel taxes are not paying for the roads as it is, it's hardly a clause worth mentioning.]
I so want to replace my beater while prices are cheap on econoboxes. Do it now before it rebounds!
If the current fuel taxes aren't enough to cover the cost of road maintenance, then I think the first thing that needs to be done is to find why it isn't enough...it used to be enough, why isn't it now? Mismanaged revenues are not fixed by increasing taxes...
I'd hate to see taxes go up, but if fuel taxes are not paying for the roads... then I don't see a choice. Might as well add now, not later. [I'll add that I wish to see all of that increased money go to only the roads, but then again, since fuel taxes are not paying for the roads as it is, it's hardly a clause worth mentioning.]
I so want to replace my beater while prices are cheap on econoboxes. Do it now before it rebounds!
If the current fuel taxes aren't enough to cover the cost of road maintenance, then I think the first thing that needs to be done is to find why it isn't enough...it used to be enough, why isn't it now? Mismanaged revenues are not fixed by increasing taxes...
If the highway trust fund is broke, then we need to re-prioritize. 1st, where did the money go? When we were using record amounts of oil, why were roads not being rebuilt?
Reduce "social programs" and pull the money from there. Just like everyone has had to do - cut costs and get the money. Or, a novel idea from our history - Public Works projects. You get a government check? Here's where you go to work rebuilding our infrastructure. Don't show up? No check. Everyone could so something, no matter how small or large. We've also got one of the largest prison populations in the world. Where you can, put them to work.
Reduce "social programs" and pull the money from there. Just like everyone has had to do - cut costs and get the money. Or, a novel idea from our history - Public Works projects. You get a government check? Here's where you go to work rebuilding our infrastructure. Don't show up? No check. Everyone could so something, no matter how small or large. We've also got one of the largest prison populations in the world. Where you can, put them to work.
I'm no expert but , like so many other things, it's a pretty complex industry... So many players, so many variables with supply and demand playing a major role
Currently the economies of Japan, China, India are hurting so their demand has dropped
The Saudis are continuing to maintain production as they don't want to lose market share and, as stated, their cost to produce is less than $20/barrel so $47.93 still affords them a profit.
A lessened demand with a steady supply
Combined with fracking, which I believe scares OPEC, Isis selling on the black market, a stronger U.S. dollar, no issues currently that might interrupt Middle East shipping lanes,..
Not sure what Russia's current woes are causing... Their cost to produce is on the higher side.... Over the current $48, I think
What makes me nuts is, at some point over the last 12 months, oil was trading at something near $150/barrel. Here in NJ, a gallon of gas reached a peak of about $3.60 a gallon... Maybe a bit more
We are now at $50/barrel... 1/3 of the peak yet are stil paying over 1/2 of the peak gas prices... Currently at $2.1x
Granted, I don't expect gas pricing to follow crude pricing minute by minute but when oil increases, we pay an increase at the pump the next day. Now that we are experiencing oil price decreases, the reduced pricing at the pump is at a snail's pace
As for taxation to maintain roads, bridges,... All good things and completely necessary. But accounting for the billions and billions collected relative to the outlay of those dollars...? Fuzzy math to be sure. Did someone say Shovel Ready?
Currently the economies of Japan, China, India are hurting so their demand has dropped
The Saudis are continuing to maintain production as they don't want to lose market share and, as stated, their cost to produce is less than $20/barrel so $47.93 still affords them a profit.
A lessened demand with a steady supply
Combined with fracking, which I believe scares OPEC, Isis selling on the black market, a stronger U.S. dollar, no issues currently that might interrupt Middle East shipping lanes,..
Not sure what Russia's current woes are causing... Their cost to produce is on the higher side.... Over the current $48, I think
What makes me nuts is, at some point over the last 12 months, oil was trading at something near $150/barrel. Here in NJ, a gallon of gas reached a peak of about $3.60 a gallon... Maybe a bit more
We are now at $50/barrel... 1/3 of the peak yet are stil paying over 1/2 of the peak gas prices... Currently at $2.1x
Granted, I don't expect gas pricing to follow crude pricing minute by minute but when oil increases, we pay an increase at the pump the next day. Now that we are experiencing oil price decreases, the reduced pricing at the pump is at a snail's pace
As for taxation to maintain roads, bridges,... All good things and completely necessary. But accounting for the billions and billions collected relative to the outlay of those dollars...? Fuzzy math to be sure. Did someone say Shovel Ready?
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I don't believe so....the Saudis at the behest of the US and
Global Banking Interests are trying to destroy Russia via
economic warfare. I think it is possible that oil could drop to 25$/barrel or less. However I hate to think of the consequences of such warfare. Russia will NOT take this attack lying down, also the other consequence is that our own oil and gas producing business is being destroyed as well. Bottom line is extremely low prices will damaging our own interests in the US as well, but the evil globalists don't give a rats behind they have proven time and time again that their interests do NOT coincide with our own US interests.
Our government isn't that smart and the Saudi's aren't that stupid.
I don't believe so....the Saudis at the behest of the US and
Global Banking Interests are trying to destroy Russia via
economic warfare. I think it is possible that oil could drop to 25$/barrel or less. However I hate to think of the consequences of such warfare. Russia will NOT take this attack lying down, also the other consequence is that our own oil and gas producing business is being destroyed as well. Bottom line is extremely low prices will damaging our own interests in the US as well, but the evil globalists don't give a rats behind they have proven time and time again that their interests do NOT coincide with our own US interests.
Our government isn't that smart and the Saudi's aren't that stupid.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: supton
I'd hate to see taxes go up, but if fuel taxes are not paying for the roads... then I don't see a choice. Might as well add now, not later. [I'll add that I wish to see all of that increased money go to only the roads, but then again, since fuel taxes are not paying for the roads as it is, it's hardly a clause worth mentioning.]
I so want to replace my beater while prices are cheap on econoboxes. Do it now before it rebounds!
If the current fuel taxes aren't enough to cover the cost of road maintenance, then I think the first thing that needs to be done is to find why it isn't enough...it used to be enough, why isn't it now? Mismanaged revenues are not fixed by increasing taxes...
Why isn't it enough? IIRC the federal tax on fuel hasn't gone up since 1993 (1994?). That alone would say to me that it needs to go up.
Mismanagement ought to be dealt with, I'm sure its there: but given how degraded our roads are, my gut says the problem is not limited to fraud. There is a massive amount of work to do, and it's not getting better.
Related thought: when fuel prices ramped up, so did asphalt prices. And so did the price to move machinery and to make stuff. So road works projects had to suffer. Yet as fuel prices went up, people bought vehicles that got better mpgs... thus funds raised for roads did not go up.
The scope of the problem seems to me much larger than what fraud outright could be causing.
Originally Posted By: supton
I'd hate to see taxes go up, but if fuel taxes are not paying for the roads... then I don't see a choice. Might as well add now, not later. [I'll add that I wish to see all of that increased money go to only the roads, but then again, since fuel taxes are not paying for the roads as it is, it's hardly a clause worth mentioning.]
I so want to replace my beater while prices are cheap on econoboxes. Do it now before it rebounds!
If the current fuel taxes aren't enough to cover the cost of road maintenance, then I think the first thing that needs to be done is to find why it isn't enough...it used to be enough, why isn't it now? Mismanaged revenues are not fixed by increasing taxes...
Why isn't it enough? IIRC the federal tax on fuel hasn't gone up since 1993 (1994?). That alone would say to me that it needs to go up.
Mismanagement ought to be dealt with, I'm sure its there: but given how degraded our roads are, my gut says the problem is not limited to fraud. There is a massive amount of work to do, and it's not getting better.
Related thought: when fuel prices ramped up, so did asphalt prices. And so did the price to move machinery and to make stuff. So road works projects had to suffer. Yet as fuel prices went up, people bought vehicles that got better mpgs... thus funds raised for roads did not go up.
The scope of the problem seems to me much larger than what fraud outright could be causing.
Hard to say what it's going to do.
The infrastructure is already built out for the new North American oil sources and has to be paid for, so there is no real incentive to stop pumping the existing wells. Lower bbl prices may put a halt on new wells being drilled and new infrastructure going in, but that's about it.
Low cost fuel could be around for a while, or not.
edit: where are all the "peak oil" doomsday people these days? It must really gall them to see this explosion in new oil resources, especially since the surface of it has hardly been scratched yet.
The infrastructure is already built out for the new North American oil sources and has to be paid for, so there is no real incentive to stop pumping the existing wells. Lower bbl prices may put a halt on new wells being drilled and new infrastructure going in, but that's about it.
Low cost fuel could be around for a while, or not.
edit: where are all the "peak oil" doomsday people these days? It must really gall them to see this explosion in new oil resources, especially since the surface of it has hardly been scratched yet.
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