Being the overly protective (and BITOG member), I've started to buy oil filter cartridges for my daughter's new Wrangler w/3.6L Pentastar V6. The Fram TG 11665 & Champ P1009XL have small o-ring stems which rotate. Mobil M1C-456A and Mopar MO-349 do not. Why is that and is one design better than the other? I bought a few (8) of the Champ's from Rock Auto and for the price they have good nitrile gaskets and good filtration. (10k and 1 yr. service interval as well.) Thanks for your thoughts....
Not all cartridge filters have stationary small O-ring stems.
- Thread starter sparky123
- Start date
Yes. I bought the filters already and for the same car. From what I've seen on YT, an anti drain back feature in the oil cap housing was added in a certain year. (Not sure of the date.) That could explain the design difference you mentioned.
I’ve often wondered about where the bypass/drainback valves were on some cars with cartridge filters. My GTI and Grand Cherokee’s cartridge filters are both just the plain filter element, no plastic sticking out of one end. I’ve looked inside the filter cap on both as I clean them and I don’t see anything in there either. It must be down inside the engine
The ADB/bypass valve, on the EA888 3 at least, is contained in a plastic piece just inside the center hole of the oil filter housing on the engine. The actual cap/housing only has the plastic cage to fit the filter onto. When you fit the filter into the cap and then tighten onto the engine housing, it basically makes the complete system. You can actually pull the filter adaptor valve out of the engine housing and inspect it if needed.
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/filter-adapter-valve/06l115678q/
That’s good to know. My GTI is a 2024 model and I think is an EA888 4 but it’s probably the same. I’ve changed the oil in it twice and didn’t notice a plastic piece in the engine housing as I sucked out the little bit of oil that’s left in there. Will check it out next time I change the oil. It appears the cartridge filter itself is the same so I’d guess it’s the same setup.
Depending on engine design, you may not need an ADBV, pypass probably. If the filter housing is on top of the engine, and the lower pump is submersed in oil, nothing will drain back. Simple physics, air would have to be intrduced to "break" the vacuum, if you know what I mean.
@sparky123 do you think this is to prevent the filter element from twisting when installed? FWIW, I only use the MO-349 now and they come out the straightest of any filters I've tried in our 2014 T&C over the last 8+ years. I'm a believer in OEM filters.
Just my $0.02
Just my $0.02
Every oil pump is full of oil internally, as is the submerged pickup tube going from the pump to the sump. If there's no ADBV in the system somewhere above the pump, the oil above the pump may drain back through the pump. Many Subaru owners report dry spin-on filters (mounted on top of the engine verticle with base down) being empty when removed. I'd think a cartridge filter mounted on top of the engine would have a ADBV somewhere in the system.
I thought of that. IMO, I don't believe the Mopar filter offers the filtration percentage or duration as some other filters. One thing good about all these cartridges, you can inspect before installing. I think it's fine whichever one you choose. In my case w/a new engine, I'd like a really great filter used while the engine has just hatched. On first O/C, I'll use the TG. Then the second-?, I'll use the Champ's. Save the Mopar/Mobil till who knows when. That's the plan, but in my world, plans can change. Try the Champ P1009XL. For the $, it seems like a great filter.
Yeah, mine is too, BUT, in the process of removing the cap, I'm letting air in, so it will drain back into the block.
I guess we'll never know, until someone invents a clear cap for the filter .
How long does the engine sit before you remove the cap? I'd think if it sat for a while and the cap was removed quickly once it was loose, that there would still be a decent amount of oil left in the housing if there was an ADBV that works correctly.
On the GTI when I loosen the filter cap I can hear oil gurgling back into the engine. Once it is loose I let it sit at a slight angle and let the oil finish draining while I start sucking the oil out topside. Maybe there’s some kind of pressure /suction keeping the filter housing full.
Or there's an ADBV in the system. The oil is probably draining out towards the oiling system instead of towards the pump when the cap is removed. An ADBV is to prevent oil draining back towards the pump.
The Pentastar oil system or filters do not have a anti-drain back valve. What is in the filter cap is the bypass valve. After the engine is turned off, any remaining oil in the filter housing drains back out after 30-40 minutes. Takes about 3.5 seconds after a cold sitting engine start to fully prime the filter housing and have a full oil pressure loop.
Sparky, are you saying that the Mobil and Mopar filters do not have the stem? Or are you saying that they do have the stem, but it does not rotate?
If I remember correctly, the earlier Pentastars use a filter that does not have a stem. DO NOT USE those filters on a later Pentastar. They will physically fit, but the engine won't build oil pressure.
I hear oil running out the drain plug hole when I loosen the filter cap on the 2014 T&C. I always change oil when the vehicle is warmed up so it might just be that all the oil hasn't drained back to the pan yet. I will say if the van sits for several days it sounds awful on start up, but 105K and still going.
Just my $0.02
Do you have the wrong filter? There are two style oil filters for these engines. One has the thingy sticking up and one doesn’t. From my understanding they are NOT interchangeable.
Dorman really pisses me off, they made their replacement oil cooler/filter housing use the newer style filter regardless of application instead of making two part numbers to keep things correct. So people use the “upgraded” part and then get the wrong oil filter. Yes it’s got a warning on top but people don’t read stuff.
Dorman really pisses me off, they made their replacement oil cooler/filter housing use the newer style filter regardless of application instead of making two part numbers to keep things correct. So people use the “upgraded” part and then get the wrong oil filter. Yes it’s got a warning on top but people don’t read stuff.
Ok, good. I don't believe there is any functional difference if the stem rotates or not. Most of the filters for my Pentastar that I have used were the rotating sort.