Nobody Wants EVs, Except Government

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: Brons2
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Also if you just happen to use less oil than anticipated, you can store it for later, electricity is just wasted meaning the coal is already burned and pollution created.


That isn't true. If the electricity demand is less, then less will be produced. If my electric meter moves less, I will pay for less. And so on. Not an EV fan, but this logic makes no sense. The power company is not going to generate a huge excess of power that won't be used.

I am generally not in favor of EVs, but rather of smaller ICEs, for the time being those make the most sense.

One area where EVs may be useful is in areas with smog problems like LA. Granted, it exports the pollution elsewhere, but hopefully that elsewhere isn't somewhere that is surrounded by mountains on three sides and subject to ocean fog.

[edit]one other thing. The reason that hybrids are somewhat attractive to me is that they can re-capture energy from regenerative braking. That energy otherwise only ends up as heat creation in the normal, non-regenerative braking process. Granted, it's not the most efficient method of recapturing energy but it's better than nothing.


It isn't ture? How do you think 110 Volts is provided to your house even if your meter is not turning? Magic? Did you check your sockets, do they read 0 or 110V? Just because you don't pay for current draw doesn't mean the power plant doesn't provide it to you, hense wastes energy everytime you don't use anything electric.

Think of it as a water system, the pressure is Voltage and water flow is your current. You are getting billed on how much water you used, or in other words how much water flows through the meter, if you keep all the taps closed you are using 0 water, but the pressure in you water pipes is still there, where do you think the energy to keep the pressure up comes from?
 
volts are volts, current is current, and ENERGY is volts x current.

So if you are not drawing current, you are not drawing energy.

The second that you turn something on, the power station reacts and generates the energy that you need, and no more.
 
EV's make sense for a lot of people. The question is will people buy them, I am guessing not until Oil gets expensive again.

Dave
 
Last edited:
I dunno.
If I could buy an EV, with all of the various incentives currently offered (check the Leaf thread) that would transport me seventy or so miles a day in all of the weather we see here, I might be seriously inclined.
Except for having to plug it in every night, and unplug it each morning, it would be a very low maintenance machine, and a fine commuter.
Might not drive like a BMW, or even an Accord, but it would be entertaining in its way.
There is a market for EVs.
It's just that battery density needs to improve to the point that they become really viable machines for a wide range of users.
A car that won't do seventy miles on a cold winter's day, although I don't do that every day, would leave me cold, double entendre intended.
I don't think the Leaf could do that, nor could any other EV I know of.
 
The last I heard, a big hurdle with EV technology is the heating and cooling of automotive interiors. Automotive a/c systems require the same power as an a/c system for a small apartment. Heating and defrosting is no small matter. I don't know how they presently cope with it.

Both are a big concern for our climate.
 
At least for the GM900 Hybrids, the AC system is electric and runs off the 300 Volt battery pack and required no engine power to run. So cool air even when stopped and not motor running.
 
Most hybrids are the same way: you do get HVAC when the engine is off because the system is electric. The Ford Escape Hybrid we have at work is NOT this way: the A/C compressor is belt-driven, so if the engine shuts off, there's no A/C. The drawback to electric systems is they draw the battery quick. The Fusion Hybrids at work will cool when the engine is off, but battery levels go down quickly, requiring the gas engine to run longer (or sooner) to keep the charge up. "No free lunch."

The Saturn Vue Hybrid had a neat feature I thought. The A/C compressor was belt-driven, but it had two A/C modes: Normal and Eco. If under the Normal mode, the engine would stay on all the time to keep the A/C compressor running. The Eco mode would allow the engine to shut off as it normally would, but would engage the A/C compressor whenever the engine WAS running. So although you didn't have full A/C all the time, you had pulses of A/C that did keep the interior acceptably cool.
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Heating and defrosting is also no small matter. I don't know how they presently cope with it.


I'm not sure either, and it's a good point. As noted above, hybrids often have electric systems, but the gasoline engine is there to "charge" the battery back up. With an EV, you'd significantly cut into the range when using HVAC. Car & Driver tested both the Volt and the Leaf in the latest issue. I think the noted that the Leaf's range was cut by 40-50% when using the A/C.
 
Though a supporter of EVs, they do have a problem with the heating/cooling issue. Plus, most batteries lose a lot of capacity at low temperatures. I have no idea how any of these will perform after a night soaking up 20 below zero temps. I suspect fleets will devise ways to pre-heat and pre-cool the cars while they are plugged in. Plus, a lot can be done with things like solar roof vents to get rid of heat while the car is parked, or black absorbent covers for winter use. A powerful electric motor puts off quite a bit of heat when under load, so I imagine that heat will be captured for vehicle heating. Or maybe, they will just become more popular in areas that don't require a lot of heating and a/c. Again, EVs are not for everyone or every situation, but they are a practical alternative for certain uses/people using a technology that is available now. Every percent of gasoline or diesel saved will extend the time we have to search for new solutions to our energy needs.
 
I'm in the minority, but I wouldn't mind having a Brammo Enertia Plus for commuting to work with. Its reported 80 mile range, max speed 60+ mph are all within scope for my requirements...
 
Right there is the problem. The reported ranges are ridiculously inaccurate in real world driving.

Mini advertises 100 miles for its Mini-E yet a tester drove it for just a few miles enthusiastically and used up over 25%!!!!

Just not yet ready for prime time for most folks.
 
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: Torino
You mean that the Govt. (Canadian or U.S.)does'nt know what they are talking about? Shocking. John--Las Vegas.


LOL! x2

x3
 
I will be happy to use an EV when

1. Electricity is generated via liquid fluoride thorium reactor (LFTR)
2. Charging station infrastructure is as broad as petro's

3. Pollution from EV manufacture meets or beats 2011 Ford Fiesta levels (this is NOT the case with today's EV's)
 
My wife and I have two cars. I drive about 30 miles each day for work, plus some short trips on the weekends. If we need to go out of town or on other trips beyond 50 miles, we could take the gas car.
One of the threads mentioned you could get a Nissan Leaf for about $12,000 after all the possible rebates. For that kind of money, I'd buy one.
 
If they were such a "Wanted Item" they would not need the rebates. What really burns me is when the Goverment gets involved. Private sector should be just that and they should build what they can sell without outside influence to deter buyers. Not being political so I will end it there.
 
Private companies like the handout too, they knew the Federal, State and Local Governments gave big incentives for buying EV's, they rush to produce them to sell a good profits. Buyers get good incentives to reduce their cost to minimum. The two winners are manufactures and buyers, the losers are taxpayers.
 
and in the case of the EV, the people who will be paying more for their power 24/7, as it's only the opportunity for profit which will encourage new investment in power supply.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom