New Toyota Camry

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: sopususer
Originally Posted By: Trav
The Toyota has a 6 spd automatic which is preferable to the slide and drive in the Subaru, it has a by far more reliable engine also. Good, well made car.
If the Subaru had the old engine or the H6 and a regular automatic then without question the Subaru would be my choice hands down but Subaru screwed the pooch in so many ways that its now on the $hit list.


I understand the love or hate on the CVT, but what is necessarily wrong with the Subaru FB boxer engine?


I don't hate CVT units its just there have a lot of issues with them over the years. Subaru messed around with them back in the Justy and it didn't work out well, now with the exception of a couple of high performance models they have incorporated it as standard in the whole line.
At the moment there are very few parts available in kits to rebuild them and not much info about rebuilding them and curing the weak spots with reinforced parts.
The time will come when they are just as reliable and easy to service as a common automatic but not at this point.

The FB has serious oil consumption issues and there is no indication the problem has been successfully addressed on the new models.
I know someone at Subaru USA parts distribution here in MA and they cant fulfill the orders for short blocks fast enough. Some cars are on their second one.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/laws...ing-071714.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/2yci4v/are_all_2015_subaru_20l_engines_having_oil/

http://www.torquenews.com/1084/subaru-gets-blanked-2015-jd-power-vehicle-dependability-study

 

[RISUPERCREWMAN]

I recently acquired a mint 2009 2GRFE V6 powered Camry with just 45K miles. Every option but Nav which does not bother me since my I Phone has Nav. Luv this car & really hauls with the 268HP V6! I see myself keeping this ride for 10 years as its my daily driver! I already switched it to a diet of Mobil 1 5w30.

 

[sopususer]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: sopususer
Originally Posted By: Trav
The Toyota has a 6 spd automatic which is preferable to the slide and drive in the Subaru, it has a by far more reliable engine also. Good, well made car.
If the Subaru had the old engine or the H6 and a regular automatic then without question the Subaru would be my choice hands down but Subaru screwed the pooch in so many ways that its now on the $hit list.


I understand the love or hate on the CVT, but what is necessarily wrong with the Subaru FB boxer engine?


I don't hate CVT units its just there have a lot of issues with them over the years. Subaru messed around with them back in the Justy and it didn't work out well, now with the exception of a couple of high performance models they have incorporated it as standard in the whole line.
At the moment there are very few parts available in kits to rebuild them and not much info about rebuilding them and curing the weak spots with reinforced parts.
The time will come when they are just as reliable and easy to service as a common automatic but not at this point.

The FB has serious oil consumption issues and there is no indication the problem has been successfully addressed on the new models.
I know someone at Subaru USA parts distribution here in MA and they cant fulfill the orders for short blocks fast enough. Some cars are on their second one.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/laws...ing-071714.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/2yci4v/are_all_2015_subaru_20l_engines_having_oil/

http://www.torquenews.com/1084/subaru-gets-blanked-2015-jd-power-vehicle-dependability-study



All I have to contribute is anecdotal experience with two FB engines. Granted the first a '13 Legacy only had around 40K when we traded it. (wife liked the new body style) The current '15 has around 19K Both cars saw M1 or Pennzoil Platinum 0w20 and Never used more than a couple of ounces during 5K ocis. The '15 hasn't seen the oil level move on the dipstick during 5k oci's. With that being said I hope I haven't jinxed myself, but perhaps has to do with engine break-in? We've had nothing short of sterling service out of our Subies.

 

[JTK]

Not sure where the OP even mentioned Subaru or Subaru CVT, but if someone could point me to where all the threads are on ~2010+ Subaru CVT issues, I'd appreciate it.

Regardless, the price on that 2016 Camry is excellent given the option package. Best I could get my mom's 2015 Camry LE for in the spring of 2015 was $22400+ TTL, but they gave her a decent trade-in value for her 2008 Vibe. She absolutely loves her Camry. I prefer the LE package with the 16" steel wheels and plastic wheel covers. More rubber soaks up the bumps nicely. I do HATE the oil filter on it and will probably have her continue with dealer OCs every 10K miles because of it. Very clever engineer.. er. I mean marketing Toyota!

 

[CKN]

This is BITOG. No love on here for CVTs or Subaru. Although I have a 2011 Legacy Limited w/the CVT - it has 42,000 miles on it-no issues. It's the only car I have ever owned that the MPG numbers on the sticker can be exceeded without any extra effort.

 

[dcd]

We bought a new 2015 Camry SE last summer and have been very happy with it. My only complaint is the sound quality of basic radio. Bluetooth function works really well, though. I can choose artist, album, etc wirelessly via on-screen menu (iPhone 6s)... Something I haven't been successful doing with uconnect or my Mazda.

 

[dblshock]

Subaru, Mitsubishi, Mazda, Nissan, Korean garbage,..you can walk right into a serious disaster, Toyota is almost certain to be engineered properly and that's clearly reflected in resale value.

 

[Milkman]

Thanks for all your thoughts.

BTW...Why the comments on the oil filter ? Is their an issue with it ?

I'm going to sell my LeSabre to a perpetually broke co-worker. He's a good guy and needs a break. $3500.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Milkman

BTW...Why the comments on the oil filter ? Is their an issue with it ?




Go look on youtube for how to change the oil, Camry, Tundra, Venza, 2.5L I4, 3.5L V6, 4.6/5.7L V8 and who knows what else have the same setup. Honestly, I don't think much of the job to change the oil, it's not that bad. But if someone gorillas on the housing, it tends to be a real pain--the housing is plastic and can round easily.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: sopususer

All I have to contribute is anecdotal experience with two FB engines. Granted the first a '13 Legacy only had around 40K when we traded it. (wife liked the new body style) The current '15 has around 19K Both cars saw M1 or Pennzoil Platinum 0w20 and Never used more than a couple of ounces during 5K ocis. The '15 hasn't seen the oil level move on the dipstick during 5k oci's. With that being said I hope I haven't jinxed myself, but perhaps has to do with engine break-in? We've had nothing short of sterling service out of our Subies.


Big Subaru fan here but lets be fair and call a spade a spade, They are not being sued for fun and the people having these issues are not all lying about it.
Some of he engines definitely have issues and going by Subaru's track record of fixing stuff like piston slap in a timely manner its not going away any time soon.

Could it be the CVT trying to keep the engine in the "sweet spot all the time play some roll in this? I don't know but its something to think about seeing how some cars have gone through multiple short blocks.
To me the Toyota isn't the nicest looking car but that personal preference, they are well put together and have dam good engines and drive trains, the uni body shell is built right, its strong.
I repaired one that had heavy frontal damage and was truly surprised at how little structural damage it had, this thing took a big hit. Original sub frame measurements were still intact after being taken out past the radiator support.

Would i prefer a AWD Legacy with an H6 and regular automatic? You bet but it doesn't exist any more so its a moot point.
I will keep my old EJ22 (arguably Subaru's best engine ever) AWD automatic for the winter as long as humanly possible. IMO Subaru needs to return to its roots beginning with the engine and drive train.
Once they loose their fan base and people that advocate them its an uphill battle.

 

[dja4260]

I didn't price out Camrys but I know that around me, you can buy a new Sonata for around 18k. That seems to be a good value. My parents have had 2 Sonatas with only one issue that was resolved under warranty.

With that said, buy what you like. It's your hard earned money.

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted By: Milkman
Thanks for all your thoughts.

BTW...Why the comments on the oil filter ? Is their an issue with it ?

I'm going to sell my LeSabre to a perpetually broke co-worker. He's a good guy and needs a break. $3500.



I changed my oil filter once so far. The housing is on very tight. It's not like a metal canister type where once you get it loose, it spins right off. You have to ratchet the Toyota's filter housing off. Not sure what it meant by gorilla it on because I just tightened it until it stopped. Get the right filter socket and it's not that hard to get off or on. You need to change out the o-ring each time. No big deal. I did it wit the Camry on the ground but it would be easier on ramps.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Leo99
Not sure what it meant by gorilla it on because I just tightened it until it stopped.


Gorilla would be the opposite of what you did--giving it a real good pull on the ratchet to make sure it was good and tight, as tight as could be.

 

[TmanP]

Just curious, how many miles on your Lesabre? And the oil filter design has a metal "cover" that stays with the car, instead of throwing it away. They can be a pain and there are several 0-rings that must be installed. Also, these filters are ridiculously expensive for what you get. But not a deal killer, just a bit of a pain.

 

[Milkman]

83,500 miles on my LeSabre. One owner...I bought it new.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: TmanP
Just curious, how many miles on your Lesabre? And the oil filter design has a metal "cover" that stays with the car, instead of throwing it away. They can be a pain and there are several 0-rings that must be installed. Also, these filters are ridiculously expensive for what you get. But not a deal killer, just a bit of a pain.


Only one o-ring. Two if you use the fancy drain feature (which I don't).

 

[Dave Hess]

Drain feature is silly. Why make something so complex???

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Drain feature is silly. Why make something so complex???


I agree, which is why I don't use it.

It does have a nice use though: it's a square drive, and a 3/8" extension fits right into it. Last person to use it on my truck cranked on it--and as a result, I don't have to use the fancy tool to remove the housing on my Tundra. Shove the extension in, turn with the ratchet, and the works comes off.

I've been tempted to overtighten the one on my Camry so I wouldn't have to use the tool it either. For all I know it's over-tightened and I could do likewise.