New Guy Oil Filter Questions

[George Bynum]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
How does an oversized filter decrease efficiency?? It's the filter media that dictates efficiency. Not size of the oil filter. I could well be wrong. Just seems a bit of a different take on filter efficiency.


From my INDUSTRIAL, HYDRAULIC, training, the larger filter will have BETTER efficiency; lower fluid velocity results in slightly better filtration and longer media life than predicted by media area alone.

 

[Bighorn2500]

Napa gold is a good filter, basically a re-branded Wix product typically in most cases. I've run wix for years on the Wife's vehicles, never had a failure.

Dino is fine, but if you're a bargain hunter you can find synthetic for the same price or even cheaper in some instances. Review auto part stores advertisements and applicable rebates by brands & you will save you money. Max out the rebate when possible and stock up.

The best kind of oil in your vehicle, is regularly change oil. Some just like the idea of using the oil to its full capabilities by doing UAO. Personal preference for each individual.

 

[Matt6127]

Originally Posted By: dwendt44
Quote:
Filter size may have nothing to do with the engineers who designed the engine.


True enough. Most companies use the same filter for all their vehicles. A certain filter could be way bigger than need be for their smallest engine and just right for the biggest engine.
Economy of scale means that the more of one filter they buy, the cheaper they can get them.
All other parameters being equal.

My 2¢


I worked for an oil change place several years ago and I can attest to the fact that different size filters were used on the same engines depending on application. It was almost always determined by how much room there was around the filter.

I remember Subaru as having two totally distinct filters listed for the same application. One large diameter, one much smaller.

GM's 60 degree V-6's are another example where GM started with the longer PF52 but switched to using the shorter PF47... Some of this was due to clearance issues in some vehicles, but I suspect it was also more cost effective to switch to one smaller filter size for multiple applications.

I currently have GM 5.7, 4.3, and 3.4 and can run the same filter on all three.

 

[JeepWJ19]

Speaking from first hand experience, please do not regard all engineering designs as the best way to do things and the end-all-be-all.

I still see very old ways of writing software that makes my head hurt trying to read the clutter. A lot of bad practices that are still used in today's systems.

One key example is Toyota's accelerator crisis which I'm sure almost everyone should remember. Some very very bad software engineering practices, completely disregarding MISRA-C 2004 coding standards, even more dangerous that it was in a safety critical system.

The cat's been out of the bag for a long time that the air filter is more important than the oil filter. I have been running a larger oil filter on my 4.0 for a while and have not seen any adverse effects, actually any notable effects at all. Only thing I can say is it makes me feel warm and fuzzy on the inside and it is the same price or just a couple cents more than the shorter version.

 

[Artjr]

George a question for you. Would you not have to ensure the larger filter still keep you pressure and flow within the required level for the engine your putting it on? Just asking and how would you know? Thank you.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Artjr
Would you not have to ensure the larger filter still keep you pressure and flow within the required level for the engine your putting it on?


Oil pressure and flow are not really effected by the oil filter. Pressure and flow are determined by the flow resistance of the engine and the volumetric output of the oil pump, and also the viscosity of the oil.

 

[George Bynum]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Artjr
Would you not have to ensure the larger filter still keep you pressure and flow within the required level for the engine your putting it on?


Oil pressure and flow are not really effected by the oil filter. Pressure and flow are determined by the flow resistance of the engine and the volumetric output of the oil pump, and also the viscosity of the oil.
Completely agree. By intent, the pump is positive displacement where flow is directly proportional to engine speed.

I suspect, but don't know, that all flow goes through the filter and the relief valve is after. Pressure is "created" by restriction and flow, limited by the relief valve. I __SUSPECT__ that oil pressure is stable for engine speeds above some arbitrary value, likely in the 1200 rpm range today (twice idle?).

A relief valve is not, in most cases, viscosity sensitive, so system pressure won't vary with viscosity; however flow distribution through the relief and through the engine would vary. That is, a SAE10 would have more oil through the lube passages than a SAE50, but both, courtesy of the relief valve, might operate at (I'M MAKING THIS NUMBER UP) 30 psi.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: George Bynum
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Artjr
Would you not have to ensure the larger filter still keep you pressure and flow within the required level for the engine your putting it on?


Oil pressure and flow are not really effected by the oil filter. Pressure and flow are determined by the flow resistance of the engine and the volumetric output of the oil pump, and also the viscosity of the oil.


Completely agree. By intent, the pump is positive displacement where flow is directly proportional to engine speed.

I suspect, but don't know, that all flow goes through the filter and the relief valve is after. Pressure is "created" by restriction and flow, limited by the relief valve. I __SUSPECT__ that oil pressure is stable for engine speeds above some arbitrary value, likely in the 1200 rpm range today (twice idle?).


The pump's relief valve is typically in the pump, so well before the oil filter. Oil pressure is only "stable" once the oil pump hits relief pressure. Otherwise, the oil pressure will increase with increased RPM until pressure relief happens.

Originally Posted By: George Bynum
A relief valve is not, in most cases, viscosity sensitive, so system pressure won't vary with viscosity; however flow distribution through the relief and through the engine would vary. That is, a SAE10 would have more oil through the lube passages than a SAE50, but both, courtesy of the relief valve, might operate at (I'M MAKING THIS NUMBER UP) 30 psi.


System pressure certainly does vary with viscosity at a constant engine RPM and oil temperature. The flow volume through the engine will be the same with 10 and 50 oil (due to the positive displacement oil pump) until the pressure relief valve starts to open. It's just that the 50 weight oil will make the oil pressure higher at each RPM point, and it will therefore cause the pump's relief valve to open at a lower engine RPM.

 

[jongies3]

Synthetic will always outperform conventional. Way I see it, if you plan to keep a vehicle for a long time and wish to get the maximum life out of the engine, run synthetic. If you plan on swapping out vehicles every few years, go with dino. The costs of synthetics aren't really that much more and for better protection, why not? I'm particularly drawn to synthetics for better cold and hot performance.

 

[FlyingVan]

Originally Posted By: jongies3
Synthetic will always outperform conventional. Way I see it, if you plan to keep a vehicle for a long time and wish to get the maximum life out of the engine, run synthetic. If you plan on swapping out vehicles every few years, go with dino. The costs of synthetics aren't really that much more and for better protection, why not? I'm particularly drawn to synthetics for better cold and hot performance.


I disagree with 'always'. Under normal conditions both dino and synthetic oils work the same. My 2004 Sprinter came with synthetic from the factory and beginning with the first oil change I have used nothing but dino oil. Right now it has 774,000 miles and still going strong. I also ran my Honda Accord to over 400k and Dodge Neon to over 300k with nothing but dino oil.

For me, if there is a dino oil approved for my car I will choose it over the synthetic and save some money. With my driving I see no advantage in using synthetic. I wish there was a dino oil approved by VW for my 2 current cars, but there are none, so I have to use synthetic.