New car sales dwindling due to high cost

[SC Maintenance]

I don't pay much attention to US car companies. Looking for opinions on how Ford is doing dropping cars from their lineup for years, with the exception of the EV Mustang?

Ford is not doing particularly well profit wise in general but I don't think it has much to do with the sedan market. Sedans are a small part of the overall US market. They really couldn't compete in that segment so was likely best they just backed up 15 yards and punted.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

That's your view. Sometimes a vehicle is a tool. Especially if you use it for business. No client wants to ride shot gun for a business lunch in a Nissan Versa.

I guess I wouldn't be one of your clients

 

[JeffKeryk]

Vehicles are a means of travel and nothing more.

Nobody needs a Tesla, Porsche, MBZ, Vette, Bro-Dozer, you name it. But they still sell, right?

 

[4wd]

GM and Ford seem to think that people want to commute in expensive pickup trucks....they've given up selling cars (unless you consider those 3 cylinder disposable vehicles). There is nothing the 'Big 3' currently sell that i would consider buying and that's on them.

Oh, so you only bought Chevy and Ford cars up until they ended production ?

 

[fdcg27]

Nobody needs a Tesla, Porsche, MBZ, Vette, Bro-Dozer, you name it. But they still sell, right?

OTOH, a Model 3 can be bought used with low miles for very little money and will have very low running costs, so it qualifies as a solid transportation choice. The right Benz or BMW model is also an economical and durable car to run.
Both the Tesla and the Germans can be very attractive as used cars thanks to rapid depreciation.
When I was young I always wanted a Corvette or a 911. I guess I grew out of that, but one can buy a 996 or many Corvettes in good condition with reasonable miles for under twenty grand, so not too impractical to buy and use.
Then there is that the Miata is always the answer. A volume car that can be bought cheaply from a number of model years that would be economical and reliable so cheap to drive.
Transportation can be fun as well as practical to use on a daily basis.

 

[zzyzzx]

The Mitsu Mirage met all of US standards but didn't sell. New car buyers wanted something nicer.

People are avoiding CVT's as well. The Mirage would have sold better if it had a normal automatic transmission. People aren't going to go out of their way to find the elusive Mitsubishi dealer unless they have a good reason.

 

[pbm]

Oh, so you only bought Chevy and Ford cars up until they ended production ?

I currently have 2 Fords and an old 2008 Corolla beater that just keeps running.
Before that I had a Buick, 2 Saturns, 2 Hyundais, 2 Mazdas, a Nissan, a Honda, 3 Dodges, a Pontiac and some others that I forget. In other words I'm not brand loyal. There was a time in my life when I was a 'buy American guy' but since most American companies aren't loyal to us anymore (multi-nationals) why bother.

 

[zzyzzx]

I don't pay much attention to US car companies. Looking for opinions on how Ford is doing dropping cars from their lineup for years, with the exception of the EV Mustang?

They tripled down on their dropping cars decision by dropping the Edge, and Escape, and then decided to use the factory where they used to make the Escape to make electric pickup trucks (yet to be released), presumably because Ford wants to lose even more money on EV's now.

 

[SC Maintenance]

GM and Ford seem to think that people want to commute in expensive pickup trucks....they've given up selling cars (unless you consider those 3 cylinder disposable vehicles). There is nothing the 'Big 3' currently sell that i would consider buying and that's on them.

Yes, well GM and Ford could not compete in the sedan market. They struggle to compete in the CUV market. There attempting to compete in the EV market - we shall see.

Two dumpster fires of epic proportions for sure.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

The car manufacturers keep bringing out expensive 'technology' that most buyers don't want or need. When they go out of business they'll realize that most people just want basic transportation that they can afford which will probably come from China....unfortunately.

They have to justify the annual inflationary price increases somehow.

 

[edyvw]

I cost of the vehicle is half of the equation. It is currently higher interest to burrow money for said expensive vehicle. That makes an expensive vehicle absurdly outrageous. It's the situation we're in right now. Then add in fuel.

Interest rates are still below average. We got used on cheap money during recession and COVID.
The main reason why it is unaffordable is that income didn’t follow inflation.

 

[NiwradND]

We have a lot more technology and safety features on vehicles than in the past, I know it doesn't justify all of the cost, but adds up along with inflation, higher profits etc. The main reason I won't buy a new one vehicle now is the problems that are developing with the vehicles after warranty over. They need to make engines that last 100,000 miles without valves needing cleaning, turbos coming apart, cams getting ate, lifters not lasting and electrical problems. Way too many problems with new vehicles is what keeps me from buying.

 

[supton]

We have a lot more technology and safety features on vehicles than in the past, I know it doesn't justify all of the cost, but adds up along with inflation, higher profits etc. The main reason I won't buy a new one vehicle now is the problems that are developing with the vehicles after warranty over. They need to make engines that last 100,000 miles without valves needing cleaning, turbos coming apart, cams getting ate, lifters not lasting and electrical problems. Way too many problems with new vehicles is what keeps me from buying.

Yes, but... what is the actual rate of problems here? I too fear all that you listed, yet I have a pair of late model cars that have passed 100k without issue. People only complain about problems. The vehicles that use DI and just don't need anything special... don't get talked about.

 

[NiwradND]

Yes, but... what is the actual rate of problems here? I too fear all that you listed, yet I have a pair of late model cars that have passed 100k without issue. People only complain about problems. The vehicles that use DI and just don't need anything special... don't get talked about.

There are some that are still multiport, (Hemi and Pentastar) and some like Ford and Toyota that run both multiport and direct injection which due not have carbon issues. But, what prevents DI from carbon, if their are some that don't carbon up. From what I hear they are carboning up, just a matter of time??

 

[fantastic]

Interest rates are still below average. We got used on cheap money during recession and COVID.
The main reason why it is unaffordable is that income didn’t follow inflation.

I'm talking about interest rates being higher than they've been for over a decade. No, I'm not talking about 40 years ago.
The well off or better off folks are propping up the auto market for the higher cost vehicles. That's what brings it up to the 50k average. The funding of checks to everyone was a wise move to allow folks out of work to pay their bills. Surely, you send your money back to "Not get used"? I invested the money so it worked out. The powerful lawmakers paid by the rich get to make up the rules about pay wages. It takes a really long time to get somewhere with that. Pay should be tied to COLA inflation.

 

[edyvw]

But those interest rates are unsustainable. Also, in the end of 2015 I actually paid more in APR for a car then I would today.
Here is where the difference is, and I already talked about it.
If you calculate inflation, i am making now same amount of money that I made in 2013, regardless that I hold much higher position. Basically, I am making $36,000 less today than I made in 2013.
That is the problem!

 

[PWMDMD]

I own a 2022 Kia Soul because it was cheap(er) at $22k, came with a 1.9% interest rate, and because it has lots of headroom. In the past 4 years, it has been bounced off several immovable objects by newly licensed drivers, and while it has seen better days esthetically, it runs like a top, or at least it will until the engine grenades. If that's anywhere near 100k miles, I got my money out of it.

My point is, cheap(er) cars still have their place but they are getting really hard to find.

 

[Enthusiast]

For me, it's several reasons why I don't buy a new car.

1. It's a depreciating asset. Why should I spend half the price that I spent on my house on something that's going to lose its value?

2. The newer the car is, The more it is engineered in a way that I don't like. For me the peak of cars was the '90s. I like having plush yet supportive seats. I like understated styling. I like simple technology for my powertrain. I like CDs. I dislike Chrome in the interior because it glares in your eyes. I like a good balance between handling yet a plush ride. The cars that they make these days look like they're making a weird stretched out face in the mirror. "Screaming look at me. Look at me! Look at me!!!" Under the overcomplicated underbuilt engines that we have these days do not inspire confidence and having too many years in the transmissions do not inspire confidence either. The seats will do everything except for have padding in them. We're trying to engineer a way the ability to have any tire profile. So if you run over a feather, you'll have a blowout and have to replace a rim let alone how horrible it rides. I detest the word infotainment system. I do not want one. I want a CD player and an old fashioned radio. I do not want a complicated HVAC system that I have to go through screens to operate because that's taking my eyes off the road. I want simplicity and reliability and good styling.

 

[The_Jeff]

I read up on automotive safety & us parents think "Put them in an old beater just in case they wreck it" but that isn't the best idea since the least experienced drivers need the latest safety provided by the latest vehicles. Now, I wish we could all afford to do that! We all need to make ends meet & I believe most decent buckets can be a good first vehicle. My first rides were a 1975 Nova & 1968 Fury! = No safety! ha!!

When I got my license in 1993 the "old beater" logic meant an American, carbureted, RWD, body-on-frame tank with 5 mph bumpers from the so called "malaise era." The downside at the time was fuel economy, but in the typical parent-child social contract, the child pays for the gas, so their circle of potential trouble gets lessened by 318 cubic inches making 125 hp while getting 12 MPG.

The brandest newest cars had a single driver's airbag and maybe 1st generation ABS but honestly the tanks would have won. SUVs still sold second to sedans, though the Explorer was getting exponentially more popular.

 

[odie]

I own a 2022 Kia Soul because it was cheap(er) at $22k, came with a 1.9% interest rate, and because it has lots of headroom. In the past 4 years, it has been bounced off several immovable objects by newly licensed drivers, and while it has seen better days esthetically, it runs like a top, or at least it will until the engine grenades. If that's anywhere near 100k miles, I got my money out of it.

My point is, cheap(er) cars still have their place but they are getting really hard to find.

Same reason we have 2 '25 KIA Souls . Easy O.C. , good ground clearance ( 6.7" ) , plenty of zip with the 2.Ltr. ( M.P.I. ) coupled with the I.V.T. , very good gas mileage averaging 35.6 M.P.G. combined for both . Both were under $22,000 with rebates ( $750 , $500 ) before the trade-ins . They're both paid in full .