New car, 2014 Mustang 5.0 Track Pack

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


And I can show you UOA's of TWS 10w-60 shearing to a light 40 in no time flat. It doesn't change the fact that various aspects of the product (like HTHS for example) don't correlate directly with KV, so while the base visc may have sheared out of grade, the HTHS will still be relatively high.

M1 0w-40, the SM version used to shear like crazy too in certain applications. However that didn't stop Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, Chrysler....etc from recommending and using it in their most demanding and high performance applications.

I'm quite sure that with many of these oils that we observe shear in and run around like Chicken Little that this is actually part of the designed behavior. Remember those engineers I mentioned earlier

Do you think the oil formulators design these oils to shear, or is it the automotive engineers realize with all the VII, thickeners, whatever, etc. added to make a 5W50 oil they chose it based on how much it will shear?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


And I can show you UOA's of TWS 10w-60 shearing to a light 40 in no time flat. It doesn't change the fact that various aspects of the product (like HTHS for example) don't correlate directly with KV, so while the base visc may have sheared out of grade, the HTHS will still be relatively high.

M1 0w-40, the SM version used to shear like crazy too in certain applications. However that didn't stop Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, Chrysler....etc from recommending and using it in their most demanding and high performance applications.

I'm quite sure that with many of these oils that we observe shear in and run around like Chicken Little that this is actually part of the designed behavior. Remember those engineers I mentioned earlier

Do you think the oil formulators design these oils to shear, or is it the automotive engineers realize with all the VII, thickeners, whatever, etc. added to make a 5W50 oil they chose it based on how much it will shear?


I think the behaviour of the product relative to shear is factored into the OEM testing/design as well as expected by the formulators and it is considered part of the performance of the final product.

 

[mcrn]

Does the QS 5w50 shear to the same grade that the motorcraft does?

 

[wtd]

Nice car. Enjoy it. I would have loved to have a track pack car but they only offer it in the manual transmission cars and I had to have an automatic because of a bad left knee.

When I bought my 14 GT in August, most dealers around here hardly had any GT's and most of the ones that did have them, they were non track pack cars. I don't think I saw a track pack car on any lot.

As far as the oil viscosity, I would definitely use the Motorcraft 5W-50 during the warranty period. With my recent experience with Ford on a warranty claim, I would not want to be the test dummy that ran an unapproved oil viscosity in their engine. I'm pretty sure you would be screwed. Everything that I have read says that the engines on the GT and the track pack cars are the exact same with no internal differences. The Boss 302 engine does have some internal differences as well as a different intake. The ECM tunes for these three versions may be different as well.

As far as gauges go, my car is a base model car and only has a fuel gauge and coolant gauge. No oil pressure gauge or volt meter gauge. I have not found anything in the digital display that tells these things either. That is one thing that Ford should have put in all of the Mustangs IMO.

I installed the Ford aluminum finned rear diff cover on my GT and it does take the 75W-140 fluid with friction modifier. My car had around 4,000 miles on it when I changed everything and the factory fluid was a nasty gray color.

Again, enjoy your car. They are fun.

Wayne

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: mcrn
Does the QS 5w50 shear to the same grade that the motorcraft does?


I don't believe we've ever seen a UOA on it to be honest

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: wtd
When I bought my 14 GT in August, most dealers around here hardly had any GT's and most of the ones that did have them, they were non track pack cars. I don't think I saw a track pack car on any lot.


My car was built in March and was delivered at my dealer in early April. The stock number indicated it was the first 2014MY car we booked into the system at my dealer. The car just sat until I bought it in August because none of the sales people could explain the cost bump for the Track Pack. Let put it this way, employee pricing was well worth it.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Let put it this way, employee pricing was well worth it.


When I finished Uni, I was nearly a Ford employee...recruitment were recruiting engineers at exactly the same time as management were downsizing...never let the left hand etc....

Anyway, the employee pricing in the salary package back then was incredible, provided you didn't want something popular like an F100 or a falcon...stuff that they wanted seen on the road they took a seemingly big big hit on retail.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Let put it this way, employee pricing was well worth it.


When I finished Uni, I was nearly a Ford employee...recruitment were recruiting engineers at exactly the same time as management were downsizing...never let the left hand etc....

Anyway, the employee pricing in the salary package back then was incredible, provided you didn't want something popular like an F100 or a falcon...stuff that they wanted seen on the road they took a seemingly big big hit on retail.


Sticker on my car was 44,250. Employee pricing dropped it down to around 39xxx before rebates. So I basically got the track pack and NAV for free. O and if they did offer a Falcon here in the States, especially a FPV you can probably guess what I would be driving.

O ya, congrats on the Ashes Whitewash.

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: virginoil


The issue here is to change for the sake of change cause you can.

On another website I visit a forum member for mods to vehicles has as his signature line "The OEM has design engineers and fully fitted workshop here we have a guy in the back yard with a hacksaw".
It's pretty easy to see what the recommended oil is.


So why not just use the recommended oil ?

Why so many pages of fuss it could have come to that conclusion sometime ago particular in this instance its a new vehicle!!

Some members should take more caution especially where some posts say ?w-20 is ok.

Not much respect shown by some members for OEMs that engineer the vehicle IMO.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: virginoil
Originally Posted By: hatt

So why not just use the recommended oil ?

Why so many pages of fuss it could have come to that conclusion sometime ago particular in this instance its a new vehicle!!

Some members should take more caution especially where some posts say ?w-20 is ok.

Not much respect shown by some members for OEMs that engineer the vehicle IMO.

I have total respect for why Ford is recommending their Motorcraft 5W-50 for their Mustang with the track option.
This is the oil that will work when you're actually racing the car on the track with oil temp's of 300F.
Now if you're not going to track your car, let alone race it, then the oil that's spec'd for the same engine without the track package would seem to be a better lubricant choice.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM


Now if you're not going to track your car, let alone race it, then the oil that's spec'd for the same engine without the track package would seem to be a better lubricant choice.


+1 It would, which is why I disagree with the one size fits all mentality. Most people were smart enough years ago to match the oil to the temps and how the vehicle was going to be used, I think they can do it now too. A little blurb in the OM, a sticker under the hood and/or in the glove box to remind them to use a different oil for racing wouldn't hurt either.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM


Now if you're not going to track your car, let alone race it, then the oil that's spec'd for the same engine without the track package would seem to be a better lubricant choice.


+1 It would, which is why I disagree with the one size fits all mentality. Most people were smart enough years ago to match the oil to the temps and how the vehicle was going to be used, I think they can do it now too.


Yes, but the counter argument to that would be that the higher VI oils that exist today, and with the large visc spreads like 0w-40, 5w-50....etc didn't exist back then either. If your summer oil was 20w-50, you'd be pretty ill served running that at -25C. Swapping out to a 10w-30 or something for the winter was the logical move. Now you can run an oil like M1 0w-40 year round, and I'd argue the same could be said for the 5w-50.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM


Now if you're not going to track your car, let alone race it, then the oil that's spec'd for the same engine without the track package would seem to be a better lubricant choice.


+1 It would, which is why I disagree with the one size fits all mentality. Most people were smart enough years ago to match the oil to the temps and how the vehicle was going to be used, I think they can do it now too.


Yes, but the counter argument to that would be that the higher VI oils that exist today, and with the large visc spreads like 0w-40, 5w-50....etc didn't exist back then either. If your summer oil was 20w-50, you'd be pretty ill served running that at -25C. Swapping out to a 10w-30 or something for the winter was the logical move. Now you can run an oil like M1 0w-40 year round, and I'd argue the same could be said for the 5w-50.


True but we're living in the now.

Isn't the same engine w/o the track pack running 5W20?
Are the engine bearings, clearances, etc. the same for this engine the as the one w/o the track pack? Just so we understand I'm trying to understand this, not start an argument.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: virginoil
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: virginoil


The issue here is to change for the sake of change cause you can.

On another website I visit a forum member for mods to vehicles has as his signature line "The OEM has design engineers and fully fitted workshop here we have a guy in the back yard with a hacksaw".
It's pretty easy to see what the recommended oil is.


So why not just use the recommended oil ?

Why so many pages of fuss it could have come to that conclusion sometime ago particular in this instance its a new vehicle!!

Some members should take more caution especially where some posts say ?w-20 is ok.

Not much respect shown by some members for OEMs that engineer the vehicle IMO.

Use whatever oil you want. You're wasting a lot of time here when you could simply look at the manual. Me personally, I concluded that since Ford recommends a 20 and a 50 depending on application something in the middle like 30 probably works very well all around in my warm climate.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete


I'll take the education, training and experience of the people who actually built and tested the engine over "common sense" offered by some anonymous user name on the internet.

The bean counters? Hate to break it to you. Engineers don't work in a vacuum. I'm sure engineers would have built the coyote from the ground up instead of basing it on the mod if they had total control.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: virginoil
So why not just use the recommended oil ?

Why so many pages of fuss it could have come to that conclusion sometime ago particular in this instance its a new vehicle!!

Some members should take more caution especially where some posts say ?w-20 is ok.

Not much respect shown by some members for OEMs that engineer the vehicle IMO.

Use whatever oil you want. You're wasting a lot of time here when you could simply look at the manual. Me personally, I concluded that since Ford recommends a 20 and a 50 depending on application something in the middle like 30 probably works very well all around in my warm climate.

It tells me that and using a 20, 30, 40, or even a 50 grade oil will work under normal conditions in this family of Ford engines even if the OM calls for a 20 grade oil only.

 

[SlipperyPete]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete


I'll take the education, training and experience of the people who actually built and tested the engine over "common sense" offered by some anonymous user name on the internet.

The bean counters? Hate to break it to you. Engineers don't work in a vacuum. I'm sure engineers would have built the coyote from the ground up instead of basing it on the mod if they had total control.


You don't need to break anything to me. We're talking about oil specifications and nothing else. Accountants don't care whether this engine requires 50 grade or 20 grade because there is no additional cost or savings involved for Ford.

Regardless of who was involved though, unless one of them was you, you don't have the standing or credibility of the people who actually did the design and testing.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM


Now if you're not going to track your car, let alone race it, then the oil that's spec'd for the same engine without the track package would seem to be a better lubricant choice.


+1 It would, which is why I disagree with the one size fits all mentality. Most people were smart enough years ago to match the oil to the temps and how the vehicle was going to be used, I think they can do it now too. A little blurb in the OM, a sticker under the hood and/or in the glove box to remind them to use a different oil for racing wouldn't hurt either.

You're absolutely right but here's the problem from the OEMs point of view. If you give the consumer any choice a certain percentage will screw it up and leave the light oil in the sump then go racing with the oil likely down a couple of quarts at the same time. I can give you a litany of unbelievable lubricant mistakes that otherwise intelligent people make.
That is why it is better for the OEM to spec' just one grade for the most extreme use that still allows it to be usable in sub-freezing conditions. Synthetic oil allows the OEMs to do that.
Is it the ideal situation? No but it minimizes warranty claims and keeps most consumers happy.

In this case with the Ford Mustang GT with the track option, if owner doesn't track his car running the Motorcraft 5W-20 would seem to make sense just don't expect a typical Ford customer service rep' to give you the okay. The advantage in doing so are a more optimized operational viscosity especially during start-up and warm-up. And most importantly you're no longer giving up the power loss associated with running a 3 grades heavier than necessary motor oil at normal oil temp's.
If you want to play very conservatively I'd still recommend installing some properly calibrated oil pressure and temp' gauges just so that you know for a fact when your driving fast on the back country roads on a hot summer day that your still operating within the maximum limitations of the oil.

The following April 23/13 9,500 mile UOA of a 2012 Mustang GT running M1 0W-20 including some track days may prove interesting:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2981823/2012_Mustang_5.0,_9500mi_+_tra#Post2981823

Maximum on track oil temp's were 230F without an oil cooler. That wasn't hot enough to trigger the ECU nannies the none track optioned car has.
If your oil temp's stay below 230F on the street, which is likely the case, you're operating well within the scope of an appropriate 0W/5W-20 grade oil.
And if one is still concerned about the warranty PM me.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete


I'll take the education, training and experience of the people who actually built and tested the engine over "common sense" offered by some anonymous user name on the internet.

The bean counters? Hate to break it to you. Engineers don't work in a vacuum. I'm sure engineers would have built the coyote from the ground up instead of basing it on the mod if they had total control.


I've worked with some of the engineers at Ford that engineered the Coyote. They're quite satisfied with the results of their work.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM


Now if you're not going to track your car, let alone race it, then the oil that's spec'd for the same engine without the track package would seem to be a better lubricant choice.


+1 It would, which is why I disagree with the one size fits all mentality. Most people were smart enough years ago to match the oil to the temps and how the vehicle was going to be used, I think they can do it now too. A little blurb in the OM, a sticker under the hood and/or in the glove box to remind them to use a different oil for racing wouldn't hurt either.

You're absolutely right but here's the problem from the OEMs point of view. If you give the consumer any choice a certain percentage will screw it up and leave the light oil in the sump then go racing with the oil likely down a couple of quarts at the same time. I can give you a litany of unbelievable lubricant mistakes that otherwise intelligent people make.
That is why it is better for the OEM to spec' just one grade for the most extreme use that still allows it to be usable in sub-freezing conditions. Synthetic oil allows the OEMs to do that.
Is it the ideal situation? No but it minimizes warranty claims and keeps most consumers happy.

In this case with the Ford Mustang GT with the track option, if owner doesn't track his car running the Motorcraft 5W-20 would seem to make sense just don't expect a typical Ford customer service rep' to give you the okay. The advantage in doing so are a more optimized operational viscosity especially during start-up and warm-up. And most importantly you're no longer giving up the power loss associated with running a 3 grades heavier than necessary motor oil at normal oil temp's.
If you want to play very conservatively I'd still recommend installing some properly calibrated oil pressure and temp' gauges just so that you know for a fact when your driving fast on the back country roads on a hot summer day that your still operating within the maximum limitations of the oil.

The following April 23/13 9,500 mile UOA of a 2012 Mustang GT running M1 0W-20 including some track days may prove interesting:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2981823/2012_Mustang_5.0,_9500mi_+_tra#Post2981823

Maximum on track oil temp's were 230F without an oil cooler. That wasn't hot enough to trigger the ECU nannies the none track optioned car has.
If your oil temp's stay below 230F on the street, which is likely the case, you're operating well within the scope of an appropriate 0W/5W-20 grade oil.
And if one is still concerned about the warranty PM me.


I agree, but in this case we here at Bitog know better.

Take a senior citizen that buys the exact car we're speaking about here because he likes it, nothing more, He drives it normally around town and lives in a cold climate. He's locked into an oil [warranty fears] that is certainly not the best for his user pattern, and longevity of his vehicle. This is all because the mfg wants to cover their arse.